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Post by MyAdia on Apr 12, 2011 9:32:31 GMT -5
This thread is dedicated to opinions about Charlene's admission in to Catholic church and the circumstances that proceeded it.
I will later include in this post information about the following circumstances:
1. Proclamations from Bunte as early as March 2006 stating that Charlene was in the process of converting
2. Charlene's statement in the PPDA interview about her faith
3. Albert's statement to the PPDA that conversion is not necessary
4. Archbiship Barsi's interview statement that it is not necessary for the Sovereign to marry in the actual church'
5. Vicar Giuliano's interview statement that Charlene does not have to convert
6. Charlene's interview statement to Jenny Crwys-William that the Monegasques are very conservative and very Catholic
7. Bars'is interview statement with Nice Matin about the 5 adults who will be baptized on Easter Sunday and the 15 who will confirmed into the Catholic faith
8. The palace statement on the wedding website that Charlene does not have to convert
9. The palace pres released issued the Sunday before the Ireland trip that Charlene has been admitted into full communion with the Catholic church
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Post by countess on Apr 12, 2011 9:41:46 GMT -5
to prevent my ranting.....i'll just say nothing either the church does for money or FAtAl does for PR would surprise me. she had to become catholic, it's not like he's an example of faith (lets face it > the WHOLE family) and i'm sure she's done worse (and will) than join a church. i'm done
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Post by MyAdia on Apr 12, 2011 9:42:33 GMT -5
I started this post after seeing Point e Vue summary of their cover story about Albert and Charlene's trip to Ireland. I am SHOCKED that someone has actually stated to questioned the palace's PR spin facts about Charlene and this sham of a wedding. Point de Vue ACTUALLY raised a question about Charlene's sudden conversion into the Catholic faith. Is the earth trembling? don't worry too much Cahrlene, Point e Vue then gets back on track spinning the fairytale. Here's the summary (Google translation) Week of April 12 to 19, 2011 A decision involving the present and the future: within three months of her marriage, Charlene conversion to the Catholic faith. This act, symbolic, and released by the palace, however, remained surrounded by a halo of mystery. We still know very little indeed about the circumstances of this new profession of faith. "Miss Charlene Wittstock who profess the Christian faith, was admitted by a free personal decision, to full communion in the Catholic Church", a terse announcement of the principality. Difficult to know more on the side of the archdiocese that has failed to comment on the event. Let us pause for a moment anyway. Weigh them at fair value of these words "free personal decision."Certainly, future princess of her rank him to it and she had little choice in a country where the Catholic faith is the state religion, than to renounce Protestantism.Psychologically, however, it marks a crucial step in his personal journey. And sounds like a final farewell to his old life. This gesture can also be seen as a further token of love offered to Prince Albert. So much so that we can almost already moved to July 2 this year ... thinking of the bride knelt before the altar, and then depositing her bouquet in a small chapel, in front of Saint Devote ... Original French Semaine du 12 au 19 Avril 2011
Une décision qui engage son présent et son futur : à moins de trois mois de son mariage, la conversion de Charlène à la foi catholique. Cet acte, hautement symbolique, et rendu public par le palais, est cependant resté entouré d’un certain halo de mystère. On sait encore peu de choses en effet sur les circonstances de cette nouvelle profession de foi. «Mademoiselle Charlène Wittstock qui professe la foi chrétienne, a été admise, par une décision libre et personnelle, à la pleine communion dans l’Église catholique », annonce un communiqué laconique de la principauté. Difficile d’en savoir plus du côté de l’archevêché qui n’a pas tenu à commenter l’événement. Arrêtons-nous tout de même un instant. Soupesons à leur juste valeur ces mots de «décision libre et personnelle ». Certes, son rang de future princesse l’y obligeait et elle n’avait guère d’autre choix, dans un pays où la foi catholique est religion d’État, que de renoncer au protestantisme. Psychologiquement pourtant, cela marque une étape cruciale dans son cheminement personnel. Et sonne comme un adieu définitif à son ancienne vie. Ce geste peut être aussi considéré comme un gage d’amour supplémentaire offert au prince Albert. À tel point que l’on se croirait presque déjà transportés au 2 juillet prochain… en songeant à la mariée agenouillée devant l’autel, puis déposant son bouquet dans une petite chapelle, face à sainte Dévote…
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Post by hibou on Apr 12, 2011 9:54:58 GMT -5
I started this post after seeing Point e Vue summary of their cover story about Albert and Charlene's trip to Ireland. I am SHOCKED that someone has actually stated to questioned the palace's PR spin facts about Charlene and this sham of a wedding. Point de Vue ACTUALLY raised a question about Charlene's sudden conversion into the Catholic faith. Is the earth trembling? don't worry too much Cahrlene, Point e Vue then gets back on track spinning the fairytale. Here's the summary (Google translation) Week of April 12 to 19, 2011 A decision involving the present and the future: within three months of her marriage, Charlene conversion to the Catholic faith. This act, symbolic, and released by the palace, however, remained surrounded by a halo of mystery. We still know very little indeed about the circumstances of this new profession of faith. "Miss Charlene Wittstock who profess the Christian faith, was admitted by a free personal decision, to full communion in the Catholic Church", a terse announcement of the principality. Difficult to know more on the side of the archdiocese that has failed to comment on the event. Let us pause for a moment anyway. Weigh them at fair value of these words "free personal decision."Certainly, future princess of her rank him to it and she had little choice in a country where the Catholic faith is the state religion, than to renounce Protestantism.Psychologically, however, it marks a crucial step in his personal journey. And sounds like a final farewell to his old life. This gesture can also be seen as a further token of love offered to Prince Albert. So much so that we can almost already moved to July 2 this year ... thinking of the bride knelt before the altar, and then depositing her bouquet in a small chapel, in front of Saint Devote ... Original French Semaine du 12 au 19 Avril 2011
Une décision qui engage son présent et son futur : à moins de trois mois de son mariage, la conversion de Charlène à la foi catholique. Cet acte, hautement symbolique, et rendu public par le palais, est cependant resté entouré d’un certain halo de mystère. On sait encore peu de choses en effet sur les circonstances de cette nouvelle profession de foi. «Mademoiselle Charlène Wittstock qui professe la foi chrétienne, a été admise, par une décision libre et personnelle, à la pleine communion dans l’Église catholique », annonce un communiqué laconique de la principauté. Difficile d’en savoir plus du côté de l’archevêché qui n’a pas tenu à commenter l’événement. Arrêtons-nous tout de même un instant. Soupesons à leur juste valeur ces mots de «décision libre et personnelle ». Certes, son rang de future princesse l’y obligeait et elle n’avait guère d’autre choix, dans un pays où la foi catholique est religion d’État, que de renoncer au protestantisme. Psychologiquement pourtant, cela marque une étape cruciale dans son cheminement personnel. Et sonne comme un adieu définitif à son ancienne vie. Ce geste peut être aussi considéré comme un gage d’amour supplémentaire offert au prince Albert. À tel point que l’on se croirait presque déjà transportés au 2 juillet prochain… en songeant à la mariée agenouillée devant l’autel, puis déposant son bouquet dans une petite chapelle, face à sainte Dévote… Well, finally someone points out the obvious!. One of Albert's people finally read the constitution which says that in order for the marriage to be legitimate she had to be Catholic. Rainier was not stupid. May be we should post that section of the constitution as proof she had too? Actually I would have found it pretty funny if they had held the marriage only to find out later, she had the kid, that he/she wasn't legitimate. JMO
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Post by Elektra on Apr 12, 2011 10:03:18 GMT -5
Well, I still think her conversion was a PR-movement. To keep the dream couple mentioned in the media inspite of the Will/Kate wedding. None of the two seem to care much about religion anyhow no matter which faith they belong to.
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Post by MadameConcorde on Apr 12, 2011 11:17:21 GMT -5
Her conversion is definitely circumstantial. These people are not catholics if only by name.
To my knowledge, a catholic does not do what he has done or neither what she has done.
I would rather call them free-style non-followers: "I decide of what my life is going to be regardless of what the rules of the catholic church are".
The Barsi will tolerate just about anything and everything provided that money will flow freely in his pockets and the best food will be served at his table each day.
For Charlene this is a convenience conversion.
Money will buy everything. The catholic church has a long history of this through the centuries.
Hypocrits.
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Post by hibou on Apr 12, 2011 11:34:58 GMT -5
One other thought on Charlene's recent conversion. It was done during her trip to Ireland where the Kelly family is known for being devote Catholics. So why not suck up to the Irish Catholic community by declaring she's Catholic while you're there. PR move indeed.
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Post by creativemind on Apr 12, 2011 12:16:05 GMT -5
Her conversion is definitely circumstantial. These people are not catholics if only by name. To my knowledge, a catholic does not do what he has done or neither what she has done. I would rather call them free-style non-followers: "I decide of what my life is going to be regardless of what the rules of the catholic church are". The Barsi will tolerate just about anything and everything provided that money will flow freely in his pockets and the best food will be served at his table each day. For Charlene this is a convenience conversion.
Money will buy everything. The catholic church has a long history of this through the centuries.Hypocrits. I'm so ticked at the Catholic Church now. There are many reason but for now I'm trying to get my son baptized -- it's been hell since my prospective godparents -- my cousin and his fiance aren't married yet -- and my cousin doesn't have a church he goes to where she lives. I've been given the 10th degree by the priest to make sure they meet with the church's approval. >:(Seriously -- I was born and raised Catholic, went to Catholic University and even was admitted into Alpha Sigma Nu - the Jesuit honor society -- CATHOLIC ENOUGH) Tired of their b.s. You should hear my banter with this priest -- as in the church needs to get its house in order blah blah. Needless to say my son won't be baptized Catholic!
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Post by mrszinck on Apr 12, 2011 12:35:58 GMT -5
Great posting all I go for the PR-thing... It's too much discussed at the France television. Although the discussion was no great drama… (I lost link. It was on RD=Delete)
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Post by MyAdia on Apr 12, 2011 16:01:00 GMT -5
I must say, Point de Vue shocked me with their questioning Charlene's sudden conversion. Their editorial cartoon this week is about it. the palace must really think that everyone is as dumb as Charlene and her lonnie flunkies. Ir's clearly obvious by the events leading up to Charlene's conversion that this new faith was a last minute deal and Charlene did not go through extensive training as other converts have. the archbishop Barsi will not even discuss it - he referred reporters to the palace. Can someone please inform these idiots that even if you put VERY EXPENSIVE designer lipstick especially made for the pig on a pig - it's STILL A PIG! Baptism required Monaco is worth a mass! Thus, the heart has its reasons which reason knows ... State. Before you can marry her prince, Charlene had to embrace ... the Catholic religion, that of the Principality.However, no need for immersion in the baptismal pool - or even fonts - of St. Devote. Still, this "baptism" that is not really him finally opens the doors of his new life. In his new family. And Princely Monaco. - by Béatrice Brasseur
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Post by countess on Apr 12, 2011 17:04:46 GMT -5
PRICELESS palace is paying for "articles" to build the brand, and at the same time making the cartoon section only the nondynamic duo could pull off that hat trick i can't wait for the Pope to visit (i read that somewhere ) it's like the odessa file only with bankers mafia not nazi's
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Post by MadameConcorde on Apr 13, 2011 4:40:05 GMT -5
i can't wait for the Pope to visit (i read that somewhere ) it's like the odessa file only with bankers mafia not nazi's 2012 I just hope it will be a different Pope. No more Popes would be even better. The Vaticans are so un-Christian and such shady organisation.
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Post by irishthanhy on Apr 13, 2011 5:29:05 GMT -5
[quote author=creativemind board=opinion thread=36 post=257 I'm so ticked at the Catholic Church now. There are many reason but for now I'm trying to get my son baptized -- it's been hell since my prospective godparents -- my cousin and his fiance aren't married yet -- and my cousin doesn't have a church he goes to where she lives. I've been given the 10th degree by the priest to make sure they meet with the church's approval. >:(Seriously -- I was born and raised Catholic, went to Catholic University and even was admitted into Alpha Sigma Nu - the Jesuit honor society -- CATHOLIC ENOUGH) Tired of their b.s. You should hear my banter with this priest -- as in the church needs to get its house in order blah blah. Needless to say my son won't be baptized Catholic![/quote]
Some priest are just not that good at their job. Sorry for all that you're going through. I'm lucky to have an awesome parish.
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Post by creativemind on Apr 13, 2011 7:32:14 GMT -5
Thank you . Just frustrated!!! He's new at the parish. Hopefully something will work out somehow!!!!
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Post by donna on Apr 13, 2011 7:35:35 GMT -5
She changed her appearances completely, so converting to catholicism is nothing for her and a lot less painful. She would be happy to turn to Vudu if it meant getting the tiara. Obviously she cares little for good values like honesty and faithfulness, hanging out with Albert.
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Post by hibou on Apr 13, 2011 8:26:59 GMT -5
She changed her appearances completely, so converting to catholicism is nothing for her and a lot less painful. She would be happy to turn to Vudu if it meant getting the tiara. Obviously she cares little for good values like honesty and faithfulness, hanging out with Albert. DOONA glad to see you are here! (for those who are new, this is an inside joke. Several years ago in my haste to post something, my fingers ran away with me and poor Donna ended up Doona! She has been kind enough to allow us to call her that because it's meant with affection!) I've always said CW would push her Granny down a hill on roller skates into traffic for the tiara. Ever since I saw the video clip of Charlene putting the snake down the poor girl's back (who was terrified of snakes) and then laugh at her why she shrieked in terror, I concluded that this truly is a mean girl. I wonder if MyaDia has it in her arsenal of all things CW?
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Post by rearden on Apr 13, 2011 9:05:16 GMT -5
I still fail to see where it says that she has to be catholic. (Sorry Hibou ;D)
Monaco is a confessional state but at the same time says that guarantees people's rights so anyonw knows how Monaco regulates other religions?
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Post by hibou on Apr 13, 2011 9:23:56 GMT -5
I still fail to see where it says that she has to be catholic. (Sorry Hibou ;D) Monaco is a confessional state but at the same time says that guarantees people's rights so anyonw knows how Monaco regulates other religions? Don't be sorry. I just thought it said so in the Constitution. I could be wrong. The PR part is most definitely true.
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Post by rearden on Apr 13, 2011 9:30:43 GMT -5
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Post by scout on Apr 13, 2011 12:26:59 GMT -5
I still fail to see where it says that she has to be catholic. (Sorry Hibou ;D) Monaco is a confessional state but at the same time says that guarantees people's rights so anyonw knows how Monaco regulates other religions? I'm with you; I'm not sure that she has to be Catholic. But Charlene's inability to be honest with who she is has lead to this confusion about her faith. If you are not Catholic and don't want to be, then stand up and state what you are and why you plan to stay that way. But Charlene tried to hedge with her reply in the PPVA interview and so the question has lived on. I guess because she didn't want to risk 'unsealing the deal'. Now we have this what appears to be a quickie conversion. Maybe Charlene has been in training for conversion for a year or two, but did not want to publicly announce it. She could have answered the question by stating she is Protestant, plans to stay that way, but is currently in studies with the Catholic church to learn her responsibilities in raising her future children as Catholics. Then when her conversion was announced, it would be clear that she has been studying this for awhile. The confusion that has arisen with these two when asked questions that most serious couples discuss before they announce their engagement, only confirms to me that this is not a love match, but a business transaction. Too sad for Monaco.
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