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Post by hibou on Nov 15, 2011 15:57:52 GMT -5
Isn't Alexandra being raised a Protestant in order to maintain her place (albeit a very long shot_ in the Line of Succession for the British Throne? That means she would have to convert to Catholicism. Not a big deal ... but, food for thought. I don't think so because when Caroline married Ernst he had to get permission from the Queen, but then he is so far removed from the throne, I don't think it matters to QEII. With Caroline now living in Monaco, I think Alexandra is being raised Catholic.
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Post by paca on Nov 15, 2011 16:16:01 GMT -5
she is going to a catholic school, her mom is catholic and I believe she is getting lessons for communion. SHe was involved in the wedding, so I believe that she is being raised catholic and always has been. ALso usually children tend to be raised in the faith of the mother, though in islam there is a difference. She was baptized in Austria, if I remember correctly, which is a mostly catholic state.
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Post by smt on Nov 15, 2011 18:11:56 GMT -5
Thanks Hibou and Paca!
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Post by cm7007 on Nov 15, 2011 19:17:25 GMT -5
I read somewhere that it was a dream of Grace's for them to be HRH instead of HSH. I don't know how they would pull it off - but I'm sure if they wanted to they could. The religion thing could cause a bit of a blip - but they could work around that. Then Monaco would be very closely aligned with the English Crown. (Ernst is the Queens cousin - 1st or 2nd - therefore so is Alexandra.) Just a vague thought I've had. The short answer is - Serene Highness is for families where the head is a Prince, Royal Highness is for families where the head is a King or Queen. So the only way would be for Albert to somehow gain the right the be called King of Monaco - probably requiring recognition from the Pope - although it's obviously way more complicated. [/quote] Alexandra is already HRH - she is a cousin of The Queen of England through her father and therefore already has the Royal title. If she were to become the head of State of Monaco she would still maintain her HRH status - (I believe-but not sure) Anybody know for sure. (IMO - it's all so stupid) I'm pretty sure there is nothing Albert can do to gain a Royal title- certainly not now. I don't think the Pope has anything to do with any of it.
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Post by cm7007 on Nov 15, 2011 19:18:55 GMT -5
I have often wondered if the real game plan was for Alexandra to take the throne since she is a true HRH because of her father. This would move them up the social ladder in the royal hierarchy. Albert marrying Charlene was simply to get the press off his back because of his track record for serial sex with whomever is stupid enough to have it with him. In the meantime with no kids, it would leave the trio basically as heirs until Alexandra takes it. Pierre looks to be the one who would run the business aspects in the meantime. Just a thought to throw out there since we are getting bored again. JMO This is exactly what I was saying.
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Post by cm7007 on Nov 15, 2011 19:25:18 GMT -5
Isn't Alexandra being raised a Protestant in order to maintain her place (albeit a very long shot_ in the Line of Succession for the British Throne? That means she would have to convert to Catholicism. Not a big deal ... but, food for thought. There's been talk recently about changing that rule about the Heirs to the British throne not being allowed to marry Catholics so that may change fairly soon. Alexandra was baptized in the Lutheran Church (I think) - but she could convert - if she hasn't already to Catholicism so she could head Monaco and then marry lets say for kicks - HARRY!!! Now that would be fun to watch!
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Post by hibou on Nov 15, 2011 21:31:08 GMT -5
Isn't Alexandra being raised a Protestant in order to maintain her place (albeit a very long shot_ in the Line of Succession for the British Throne? That means she would have to convert to Catholicism. Not a big deal ... but, food for thought. There's been talk recently about changing that rule about the Heirs to the British throne not being allowed to marry Catholics so that may change fairly soon. Alexandra was baptized in the Lutheran Church (I think) - but she could convert - if she hasn't already to Catholicism so she could head Monaco and then marry lets say for kicks - HARRY!!! Now that would be fun to watch! LOL It will take Harry at least a decade more to grow up so that sure would be fun. Then Harry would have his own "kingdom".
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Post by bellabunny on Nov 15, 2011 21:47:07 GMT -5
Alexandra's HRH has nothing to do with the British royal family, it comes from her father's family the Hanovers. In Britain only the children and children of sons of the monarch can use HRH - and only William's oldest child will be HRH until he moves up in succession.
The Hanover succession is a strange, remote thing, she's currently 431st in line because she apparently is being raised Protest. Her father lost his place when he married Caroline because she is catholic.
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Post by emmeline on Nov 16, 2011 10:29:24 GMT -5
I've read succesion laws in Britain have changed: Now it a woman can be Queen if she is born first and the Sovereign can marry catholics.
It would be so cool if Alexandra was the Heiress. Well, one can dream. Any of Caro's children are ideal. I'm still hoping Shitlene Bitchscock won't have kids, no matter how hard her fans say "oh she's pregnant!"
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Post by hibou on Nov 16, 2011 11:50:11 GMT -5
Alexandra's HRH has nothing to do with the British royal family, it comes from her father's family the Hanovers. In Britain only the children and children of sons of the monarch can use HRH - and only William's oldest child will be HRH until he moves up in succession. The Hanover succession is a strange, remote thing, she's currently 431st in line because she apparently is being raised Protest. Her father lost his place when he married Caroline because she is catholic. Actually that's partially incorrect. Ernst of Hanover although very distant cousin did have to obtain permission to marry Caroline because she is Catholic. (you are correct he gave up his line in the throne). Although the German monarchy was done away with, Ernst is still HRH by birth, thus Alexandra is HRH as is Caroline by marriage. This is because he is the oldest son who inherited the title and they are their own branch of the European monarchies. You are correct on the grandchildren of the QEII. Only William and Harry carry the HRH. This I believe is a relatively recent change and one that also sees the other Grandchildren and perhaps Harry as not being on the civil list as is evidence by the Queen telling Bea and Eugenie that they have to earn their own living. In the past with high mortality rates all children born to a royal were well royal thus HRH. Since the line of succession in Britain is secure and people are tired of paying for all those HRH the change was made. Ernst's situation is different. Among royals he is still HRH but by the German Government he's just Mr. Hanover.
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Post by paca on Nov 16, 2011 16:33:23 GMT -5
everyone related to the Queen has to ask her permission, Catholic wife or not. Ernst is not HRH by birth according to German law. There are no valid titles of nobility in Germany since WW one. If Ernst wants to be called prince, then it is part of his name and that also means that the writing remains unchanged independent of the language. Caroline is correctly addressed as Frau Prinz von Hannover. I believe due to the oditiy of the language they are allowing them to change it to female, though strictly speaking it would be against the law as regular German surnames are not being changed depending on gender. Hibou the spelling in German would be with NN and is unchanged whether he goes to England or France. But more appropriate for him would probably be Hangover as that is by now probably his normal state of being.
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Post by cm7007 on Nov 17, 2011 2:10:47 GMT -5
I like HRH Prince Hangover. That's really rich! I'm totally confused about the HRH and England. Aren't Princess Anne, Prince Andrew and Prince Edward all HRH's? I thought Andrew's girls were HRH - and Sarah was until she divorced - also Diana - wasn't that one of the things she was stripped of her? Her HRH title? Princess Michael of Kent is an HRH - I was introduced to her originally as HRH .. . not that any of it really matters to me - but just wondering.
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Post by hibou on Nov 17, 2011 14:33:58 GMT -5
everyone related to the Queen has to ask her permission, Catholic wife or not. Ernst is not HRH by birth according to German law. There are no valid titles of nobility in Germany since WW one. If Ernst wants to be called prince, then it is part of his name and that also means that the writing remains unchanged independent of the language. Caroline is correctly addressed as Frau Prinz von Hannover. I believe due to the oditiy of the language they are allowing them to change it to female, though strictly speaking it would be against the law as regular German surnames are not being changed depending on gender. Hibou the spelling in German would be with NN and is unchanged whether he goes to England or France. But more appropriate for him would probably be Hangover as that is by now probably his normal state of being. Thanks paca. I knew that did away with the titles but I didn't know when. Interesting that in German it's not HRH but NN. I learn something new!
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Post by hibou on Nov 17, 2011 14:39:53 GMT -5
I like HRH Prince Hangover. That's really rich! I'm totally confused about the HRH and England. Aren't Princess Anne, Prince Andrew and Prince Edward all HRH's? I thought Andrew's girls were HRH - and Sarah was until she divorced - also Diana - wasn't that one of the things she was stripped of her? Her HRH title? Princess Michael of Kent is an HRH - I was introduced to her originally as HRH .. . not that any of it really matters to me - but just wondering. From what I understand, QEII's kids, Charles, Anne, Andrew, Edward are all HRH, but only William and Harry will carry that. Zara and her brother have no title at all per Anne's request. Edward's kids are Vicount and Lady. Only Bea and Eugenie style themselves as Princess mainly because of Fergie and Andrew insist they be called that, but they are not HRH. I could be wrong but that's how I understand it. If Harry has kids, his kids will not be HRH but will carry whatever additional title the Queen has chosen for him - most likely a Dukedom or some sort since he will be the brother of the king. I think the Duchess of Kent also bears the title Princess Michael of Kent. Under the old rules, I think almost of were styled Prince or Princess but not HRH. The HRH is the "special" title only the direct heirs to the throne carry, that's why Diana was stripped of the HRH and even had to fight to remain Princess. Fergie lost all her titles, but still likes to be referred to as the Duchess of York.
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Post by paca on Nov 17, 2011 16:25:20 GMT -5
everyone related to the Queen has to ask her permission, Catholic wife or not. Ernst is not HRH by birth according to German law. There are no valid titles of nobility in Germany since WW one. If Ernst wants to be called prince, then it is part of his name and that also means that the writing remains unchanged independent of the language. Caroline is correctly addressed as Frau Prinz von Hannover. I believe due to the oditiy of the language they are allowing them to change it to female, though strictly speaking it would be against the law as regular German surnames are not being changed depending on gender. Hibou the spelling in German would be with NN and is unchanged whether he goes to England or France. But more appropriate for him would probably be Hangover as that is by now probably his normal state of being. Thanks paca. I knew that did away with the titles but I didn't know when. Interesting that in German it's not HRH but NN. I learn something new! LOL the double N refered to the spelling of the city Hanover which in German is spelled Hannover. The address would be Koenigliche Hoheit. Depending on gender Seine or Ihre, so SKH or IKH. Albert is an SD for Seine Durchlaucht. trashy is an ID. Thackeray mocked this title in Vanity fair by translating it as his Transperancy the Duke and his transparent family ;D ;D
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Post by hibou on Nov 17, 2011 16:56:14 GMT -5
Thanks paca. I knew that did away with the titles but I didn't know when. Interesting that in German it's not HRH but NN. I learn something new! LOL the double N refered to the spelling of the city Hanover which in German is spelled Hannover. The address would be Koenigliche Hoheit. Depending on gender Seine or Ihre, so SKH or IKH. Albert is an SD for Seine Durchlaucht. trashy is an ID. Thackeray mocked this title in Vanity fair by translating it as his Transperancy the Duke and his transparent family ;D ;D LOL Well, my German is as good as Charlene's French and there you have it!!
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Post by bellabunny on Nov 18, 2011 2:26:06 GMT -5
With royal titles, it's passed through fathers, not mothers, unless that mother is the monarch.
Queen Elizabeth's 4 children - Charles, Anne, Andrew, Edward - are all HRH
Her sons' wives - Diana, Sarah, Sophie - were all made HRH (but NOT Princess) when they married. Diana and Sarah were stripped of the HRH when they divorced. "Princess Diana" was only a nickname people called her, she was never entitled to be called Princess.
Charles and Andrew's children - William, Harry, Beatrice, Eugenie - are all HRH. Edward and Sophie's children - James and Louise - could also be HRH but their parents chose not to accept the titles for them.
Princess Anne's children - Peter and Zara - never had titles or HRH because their father never had a title.
The Queen's sister Princess Margaret was HRH because her father was King George VI, her children are not HRH because she married a non-Royal.
The Queen's cousins - Duke of Gloucester, Duke of Kent, Princess Alexandra, Prince Michael - are all HRH because their fathers were the sons of King George V. The wives - Duchess of Gloucester, Duchess of Kent, Princess Michael - are HRH because they married princes. None of their children or grandchildren have, or will ever have HRH because they are too distantly related to the throne.
This was all laid out in the 1917 laws that changed the British royal family's name to Windsor and took away German surnames and titles from British royals.
The Hanover's are the descendants of Queen's Victoria's uncle the Duke of Cumberland who inherited the Hanover throne from his elder brother - Victoria's uncle William IV - because Hanover law didn't let women inherit the throne. They lost the kingdom of Hanover when Germany was unified and lost the Duke of Cumberland title because of WWI. They lost the Prince of Great Britain title at the same time, but got it back through a loophole in succession law dating back to when the UK throne went to the Hanovers in the first place.
It seems to be more ego and PR to play up the relation to the Queen than anything else, since from what I can find, Ernst didn't ask her permission to marry the first 2 times, only when he was marrying Caroline, and that had something to do with property the family owns in UK (to make sure that Alexandra would be able to inherit her share no problem? Not sure here)
The Commonwealth countries have all agreed to accept changes to the succession laws so women are not secondary to men in birth order, and so royals don't lose their place in line for marrying Catholics. The changes haven't been passed into law just yet, it will be interesting to see if any other changes are made as part of the new law.
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Post by cm7007 on Nov 18, 2011 3:12:01 GMT -5
For the record - so there is no confusion here - I use Ms.
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Post by paca on Nov 18, 2011 5:34:31 GMT -5
LOL and thats the best one of all ;D
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