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Post by MadameConcorde on Feb 22, 2012 13:53:02 GMT -5
Good find. That description fits him so perfectly. Karma point for you!
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Post by agentf on Feb 22, 2012 13:53:29 GMT -5
Paca, if you google Sal Strazzulo or whatever the lawyer's name is, there's an old Gawker post that refers to him as sleazoid and the go-to guy for the most preposterous defenses, as in prostitutes trying to get off on a spelling error in the prosecution's documents against them, thanks to that guy. I think the Ernst argument was very good, really. I avoided responding to that myself. Let's not forget Caroline was physical with Albert too. However, I personally don't see a maniac lurking behind Pierre's eyes, and his GF was there too. Let's wait for the footage and see. My money stays on Pierre though. I am not berating, I am trying to point out that everyone is jumping straight to the defense of Pierre and passing a verdict against the other guy regardless. To me the discussion looked like he attacked an angel who wouldn't do any wrong if his life depended on it, whereas the other guy and his lawyer got the bad guy card straight away. How did the lawyer end up with a bad character verdict just for being his lawyer? Sorry but to me everyone is too quick with judgement here and IMO it should be left to the court where all parties have the opportunity to plead their case. My reference to Ernst was only to explain that Pierre grew up in an environment that did not handle alcohol and violence well, so there is reason to believe that under the influence of alcohol he might as well find a certain behaviour appropriate. I did not say that Pierre lashed out first because Ernst was violent, or that he lashed out at all. I am only saying that it can not be outruled that Pierre was not as innocent as some wish to think. Yes apparently the guy hit him hard and he apparently fell badly and got badly injured. Still I doubt that any sane person, alcohol or not, lashes out with no reason. To me all parties involved are at fault. Pierre is the one with the biggest injury and the court will determine what will happen to the other guy. But still it remains that it takes at least 2 to fight and both of them took a decision: one to provoke, the other to react to it. Both should have used their brains and considered the consequences. Maybe Pierre will think twice next time before opening his mouth and the other guy might turn around and walk away next time. Both of them took a decision, now they both need to deal with it. If Pierre was my son, he would have gotten a maybe that'll teach you instead of sympathies. I am raising my kids to not insult and provoke people and to walk away from fights. They have been told that they are allowed to defend themselves and use appropriate force in order to get themselves and others out of danger and call the police for help. They already know that any force beyond that is a crime. And sometimes you need to shove people away who are trying to provoke you and just won't give it a rest. But then you can shove them just hard enough to allow you to walk away. Anyways as you said it is public record and can be consulted if the media cared, but obviously they don't as the other stories make better money then what actually happened. This is not a trial yet, so every statement thus far remains unchallenged. And we know from Strauss Kahn, that people do get arrested before the witnesses are found reliable in NY. That does not mean that DSK was not guilty, but it shows that the state attorney does arrest people without sufficient proof. It happens all the time and in cases more severe than this one. Hock is just lucky that he isn't Hispanic or black. Sorry, but my faith in US justice system is limited. Seeing how quickly the verdict is passed in this forum, I doubt that Hock would ever get a chance in front of a jury, once it is pointed out that Pierre is Grace's grandson, Caroline's son and son of a princess....there is a reason why he get's called prince Pierre in the media...
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Post by mrplowfan on Feb 22, 2012 14:29:32 GMT -5
Paca, the attorney is well known in the US as being a sleazy attorney. This isn't something that was made up to defend Pierre. He just IS.
Second, the way the US justice system works is VERY different from Europe. The police do an initial investigation at the scene and interview witnesses (separating them, never together). They decide to arrest someone or all at the scene. They take the person to jail. They write up a report and then call the District Attorney (known in the US as just a "DA"), who is the representative of the State. It's their call based on the evidence presented by the police to accept charges or not. If they see no evidence the person is let go.
In this case, the DA accepted charges. He presented them to a judge. Hock went before a judge at an arraignment hearing (this is what the europeans took a disgust too when we "paraded DSK" - all criminals go through it). At the arraignment hearing the judge reads the charges the DA is bringing against the person. Decides on bail or release on their own recognizance (as long as they are not a flight risk). The judge sets a hearing date for the next phase and tells them when to return. He also sets any protection orders at this phase (telling them not to contact the victims, etc).
At either phase, if they felt that Pierre had assaulted him and he was acting in his defense the case would have been dropped. The police didn't feel his actions were warranted, obviously. In the United States, it's not a defense to break someone's jaw to "defend someone's honor" if that's what happened, which I doubt now.
The investigation has already gone through two phases - the Police and the DA. They both felt there was enough to charge.
Hock spent two days in jail waiting for his hearing. He picked a well known scuzzball attorney. The attorney immediately went to the press - not the victims. He told his side of the story, making out Pierre and the guys to be wanting to be treated as a royal and "trust fund babies" because that plays well in our Press right now. The press didn't even contact the police or get the reports, they only went with Hock's attorney's view. Hock obviously hopes that the PR would get Pierre to drop the charges and refuse to testify against his client.
Pierre's attorney is the District Attorney in this case. That person is employed by the State. They don't "do" PR. Their job is to prosecute bad guys. The police don't make statements for you, either. He had no CHOICE but to hire someone to speak on his behalf. Who should he have chosen, Charlene's family? They're already online going wild and she has her friend bloggers twittering that Pierre isn't in line for the throne (inaccurate).
It's interesting that Hock immediately resigned from his position at the US-Libya Chamber of Commerce. Does someone ask for the resignation of an innocent person?
Why would the club make a statement their owner didn't approve of? The club's statement says a LOT about his feelings over what happened. He was supposedly sitting with Hock (according to the original story Hock put out).
Hock's story has now changed. He backtracked immediately and said that it was Pierre's friend, Stavros who was the instigator. He said that someone pulled on his shirt and that he swung out to first person he saw, which was Pierre who he didn't know. It's obvious that now the story is changing because the video has been shown to his attorney and it's obvious Pierre was innocent.
I see NOTHING wrong with anyone being out at a club with friends no matter the time on a Friday night. It's not an age thing. I've also been with people whose actions were a bit embarrassing. Thank goodness no one hit me simply because my friends were being 'obnoxious'. Pierre had not control over Stavros.
Why is it that people have a strong habit of blaming the victim? Violence in any form isn't a mistake it's A CRIME. You don't hit someone to break their jaw to the point of disfigurement. You don't kill someone. It doesn't matter how someone is dressed, where they are, how much money they have or who they are with.
I will admit to being very pro Caroline but Charlene and her family were online the minute the press started the reports (notice it wasn't until after Hock's attorney came forward) and are attacking Caroline's parenting and using this as a way to promote Charlene.
I don't see Caroline running to the press or asking anyone to twitter to the editors reminding them that "Pierre isn't royal, do your homework." or "Pierre isn't even in line for the throne". Caroline is too busy taking care of her son.
As far as Ernst - lots of people get into abusive relationships. It's hard to leave them. They always say that they will change. Until you have been there it's very easy to criticize. It took me 5 years to get out. Caroline should be applauded for getting out. Men and women who are addicts or abusive don't appear that way in the beginning. They don't let their true colors show until they are comfortable that you are trapped.
I certainly hope my own children aren't judged by my mistakes with their father. They didn't have a choice in the matter and it didn't make them any less of a wonderful two people. Would someone automatically take my son as less of a victim in a crime because of his father? I hope not, since he's the exact opposite of him!
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Post by mrplowfan on Feb 22, 2012 23:36:03 GMT -5
And just to show how desperate Charlene's crowd is to get the "word" out there, they have performed their magic of inserting it somehow into "any" forum or topic. Now they've actually had the balls to hijack a thread about Prince Friso being in critical condition, along with their vitriolic comments in Pierre's thread at one forum. There is another crowd who are "crowd sourcing" emails to editors of every major magazine that Pierre is not a member of the royal family (news flash no one in Monaco is royal except maybe Alexandra and Caroline)...
Before now there have been no comments or interviews by Pierre or his crew and when someone in his crowd did speak out it was "suspect" and "we'll wait for the video..."
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Post by mrplowfan on Feb 23, 2012 7:44:51 GMT -5
And look who is making public appearances for the press - Adam Hock. Notice the arm, nice touch. He didn't get that from the police doctor. He went to another doctor after he was let out of jail. He sprained his arm punching all those guys....poor thing.
[a href="http://www.newscom.com/nc/displayOpenDetail.action?searchString=spnphotosthree810216&search1String=monaco&search2String=a&dispOutput=grid&eaCurrentPageNum=1&bylinesearch=&locationsearch=&sourcesearch=&actionsearch=&postersearch=&attrsearch=&capwrisearch=&categorysearch=&scatssearch=&scodesearch=&specialsearch=&subjectsearch=&feature=spnphotosthree&vg=false&sort=d&searchPhoto=Y&searchVideo=N&searchText=N&searchGraphics=N&searchkey=[]&searchtype=newsearch&searchSet=no&searchSetName=&searchHZ=N&searchVT=N&daterng="]http://www.newscom.com/nc/displayOpenDetail.action?searchString=spnphotosthree810216&search1String=monaco&search2String=a&dispOutput=grid&eaCurrentPageNum=1&bylinesearch=&locationsearch=&sourcesearch=&actionsearch=&postersearch=&attrsearch=&capwrisearch=&categorysearch=&scatssearch=&scodesearch=&specialsearch=&subjectsearch=&feature=spnphotosthree&vg=false&sort=d&searchPhoto=Y&searchVideo=N&searchText=N&searchGraphics=N&searchkey=[]&searchtype=newsearch&searchSet=no&searchSetName=&searchHZ=N&searchVT=N&daterng=[/a]
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Post by hibou on Feb 23, 2012 17:44:10 GMT -5
And look who is making public appearances for the press - Adam Hock. Notice the arm, nice touch. He didn't get that from the police doctor. He went to another doctor after he was let out of jail. He sprained his arm punching all those guys....poor thing. [a href="http://www.newscom.com/nc/displayOpenDetail.action?searchString=spnphotosthree810216&search1String=monaco&search2String=a&dispOutput=grid&eaCurrentPageNum=1&bylinesearch=&locationsearch=&sourcesearch=&actionsearch=&postersearch=&attrsearch=&capwrisearch=&categorysearch=&scatssearch=&scodesearch=&specialsearch=&subjectsearch=&feature=spnphotosthree&vg=false&sort=d&searchPhoto=Y&searchVideo=N&searchText=N&searchGraphics=N&searchkey=[]&searchtype=newsearch&searchSet=no&searchSetName=&searchHZ=N&searchVT=N&daterng="]http://www.newscom.com/nc/displayOpenDetail.action?searchString=spnphotosthree810216&search1String=monaco&search2String=a&dispOutput=grid&eaCurrentPageNum=1&bylinesearch=&locationsearch=&sourcesearch=&actionsearch=&postersearch=&attrsearch=&capwrisearch=&categorysearch=&scatssearch=&scodesearch=&specialsearch=&subjectsearch=&feature=spnphotosthree&vg=false&sort=d&searchPhoto=Y&searchVideo=N&searchText=N&searchGraphics=N&searchkey=[]&searchtype=newsearch&searchSet=no&searchSetName=&searchHZ=N&searchVT=N&daterng= [/a][/quote] He has a 3" bruise and is complaining about it. He's looking for money and found a way to get it by causing this ruckus with Pierre. It's going to backfire on him. If the NYPD thought Pierre did something, they would have charged him as well. They didn't charge him so it was Hock that started it and now wants cash. He picked the fight for the money. I have no sympathy for him even if the boys were drunk and rowdy. JMO.
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Post by mrplowfan on Feb 23, 2012 17:49:14 GMT -5
But look how this is being played by the sugars *who by the way if you responded this way about Charlene you would be attacked*
---- I really hope Princess Charlène would have a child soon , a real Prince or Princess of Monaco, to get rid of the Casiraghi trio. -----
Agreed! I've never had a good impression of the Casiraghis.
Princess Stephanie's kids strike me as being a lot more focused and balanced. Of course, they're a lot younger, so who knows where they're headed. ---- Sure, anyone can sue anyone over anything. Mr. Hock was released without bail and I find it odd that there are no photos of Mr. Casiraghi to back up accounts of his injuries.
I feel nothing one way or the other...just observations. ----- The same person who "feels nothing one way or the other...." says I predict no trial, with all charges dropped. and In the words of the Bard: "Methinks they doth protest too much." (when Beatrice spoke out) and As for the Vogue article, it is worthless as well. One sided makes good reading, but well....
-----
Obviously the Charlene crowd is so unbiased, too. They are online trashing Pierre when the facts are that he was a victim. Anyone who says anything different is "biased". The Casiraghis consistently get much more press than Albert or Charlene combined. We've documented it time and time again. Why is that? Because they've actually been quite well behaved and have had very good reputations...and no botox or fake love. Suddenly it's all the victim's fault.
If anyone doubts that Hock is nuts, he says the video doesn't show the truth and now he saying he has to bring in a "witness" to show that someone threw a bottle at him. I wonder, was it before or after he hit Pierre so hard he flew across a room and broke a table? He actually stripped down to show a tiny bruise! Pierre has a broken jaw and large cuts on his face and the guy has a bruise?! Who got beaten up?!
Obviously, only Hock is telling the truth to Charlene, her paid flunkies, blogger friends and family. I wonder if Albert has seen what they say about his nephew and mother?!
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Post by agentf on Mar 1, 2012 17:45:45 GMT -5
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Post by emmeline on Mar 2, 2012 17:23:34 GMT -5
And he is looking fine. "Oh...plastic surgery, he'll need plastic surgery" Plastic surgery my a** the only one obssesed with that is Princess Slutlene.
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Post by MyAdia on Mar 30, 2012 10:41:26 GMT -5
Update on Adam Hock's case. Yesterday Hock refused the plea deal the the NY prosecutors offered him which included no jail time if he pleaded to the top misdemeanor assault charge and attended 12 days of anger-management therapy. The prosecutor has 10 minutes of video inside the club detailing the fight, including all the people Hock hit besides Pierre.
Hock is greedy and his greed will get the best of him. He has a high priced attorney who probably is only taking the case because he thinks he can make money in a civil suit - which is why Hock keeps complaining about a shoulder injury he has. Hock is claiming that he has evidence against Pierre to show that he is a serial brawler. Hock is thinking that he can taint a jury pool by continuously trying to paint Pierre and his friends as spoil rich brats. But, this Neanderthal needs to realize that the tape speaks for itself and his greed will land him in jail.
Hock turned down the pleas BEFORE the prosecutor handed over the evidence against him including the video. I wouldn't be surprised if after viewing the tape, he decides to take the plea.
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Post by MyAdia on Mar 30, 2012 10:49:51 GMT -5
From the New York Post: Prince Is serial ‘bar brawler’ Jaw-breaker’s defenseBy LAURA ITALIANO March 30, 2012 TOUGH! Adam Hock leaves court trailed by lawyer Joseph Tacopina yesterday after nixing a plea deal and insisting the rich club kids he fought do it all the time.
Royal jaw-buster Adam Hock turned down a no-jail plea in a Manhattan courtroom yesterday — insisting he’ll go to trial to prove he was the victim of “international bar brawlers” in his flashy February fight with the prince of Monaco.
“We have information that these four individuals are known bar brawlers,” Hock’s new lawyer, Joseph Tacopina, insisted after a brief court appearance, referring to Prince Pierre Casiraghi and the three princely pals Hock is charged with also decking.
“They’re international bar brawlers — Paris, Belize, the US,” Tacopina said.
Hock, the beefy former owner of the Hawaiian Tropic Zone in Times Square, is fighting misdemeanor assault charges after busting Casiraghi’s jaw with a single punch at the Double Seven hot spot in the Meatpacking District.
Prosecutors say Hock popped not only Casiraghi but three members of his royal posse: Paris Hilton ex Stavros Niarchos, Diego Marroquin and Vladimir Restoin Roitfeld. It was a fracas that witnesses say sent a gaggle of attendant fashion models scurrying into the street.
“They’ve started brawls in prior instances,” Hock’s lawyer said yesterday, declining to elaborate except to say: “I have evidence of a half-dozen of them. At times, it’s all four of them, or two of them or just one.”
Casiraghi is the 24-year-old grandson of Grace Kelly. His lawyer, Edward Kratt, when asked about the “international bar brawlers” barb, said, “I am declining to comment — for now.”
He has insisted in the past that the prince and his friends were not the aggressors in the melee.
Hock said through his lawyer that he will never plead guilty in the case, not even to a reduced charge of a violation. He rejected an offer by prosecutors that he could stay out of jail if he pleaded to the top misdemeanor assault charge and attended 12 days of anger-management therapy.
Hock suffered a “tear” in his shoulder when someone in the prince’s contingent flung a magnum of Grey Goose vodka at him, Tacopina said.
Three eyewitnesses are already on board to say Hock only swung to protect himself from a four-against-one pile-on, the lawyer said.
“These are four drunk guys who make a living trying to get their names in the papers,” he said.
Also today, prosecutors turned over to the defense 10 minutes of surveillance video from inside the club. Manhattan Criminal Court Judge Michelle Armstrong ordered it be sealed, on the request of prosecutors, so that a future jury pool is not “tainted” by seeing evidence in advance.
Hock returns to court May 24.
Both sides of the battle royal have dueling gorgeous eyewitnesses in their corner. Niarchos’ swimsuit-model sweetheart, Jessica Hart, tweeted on her beau’s behalf that Hock was a “freaky liar.” Supermodel Shawna Christensen — the face of Oil of Olay products — has spoken to investigators on Hock’s behalf.
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Post by hibou on Mar 30, 2012 15:01:26 GMT -5
If they have video from the club, and the prosecutor is offering a plea deal, and Hock doesn't take it, Hock is pretty screwed. It doesn't matter whether Pierre is a serial brawler, the evidence in the video tape has to be damning for the prosecutor to offer a deal otherwise they would recommend that the case be dropped and let Hock pursue it in a civil court for damages. The fact that the prosecutor offered a deal means they have concrete evidence. If he doesn't take the deal and it goes to trial, he could end up in jail. Once he passes on the plea deal, it's taken off the table and he gets no deal. He's pretty stupid and yes greedy.
I'm not saying Pierre is a saint, I'm not saying he isn't a serial brawler, I'm saying in this particular case the evidence on the video tape has to be extensive enough to offer Hock a deal. He blew it. JMO
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Post by vamilkshake on May 24, 2012 6:29:55 GMT -5
Today's NYPost reports on a court date for Adam Hock and Pierre Casiraghi. See below. Jawing over brawl Last Updated: 12:04 AM, May 24, 2012 The notorious “battle royale” at a fashion-model-clogged Meatpacking District club in February has left Monaco’s baby-faced “Prince” Pierre Casiraghi literally scarred for life, he’s griping in court papers. “Lacerations of my left cheek required surgical intervention and has [sic] resulted in scarring,” Casiraghi proclaimed in an affidavit against accused royal jaw-buster Adam Hock, who’s back in Manhattan Criminal Court today on misdemeanor assault charges. Casiraghi told prosecutors that he and three members of his playboy posse, including Stavros Niarchos, were minding their own business at the Double Seven when they were attacked for no reason by beefy businessman Hock. “It’s certainly a recognizable scar, and it’s permanent,” Casiraghi lawyer Edward Kratt told The Post’s Laura Italiano. “I’ve seen it in person.” But Hock’s high-powered defense lawyer, Joseph Tacopina, snorted, “This would be the first time in the history of medicine that a superficial scratch needed surgical intervention. Fortunately for Adam, there is cross-examination under oath.” Meanwhile, what had been described to cops as a fractured jaw has been downgraded in Casiraghi’s affidavit to a “possible fractured jaw.” Hock counters that he is the victim of four-against-one violence and suffered bruising and a tear in his shoulder when one of the posse flung a magnum of vodka at him. He’ll appear before Judge Michelle Armstrong today for a decision on pretrial motions. Hock is asking to dismiss the assault charges that concern three of Casiraghi’s pals, who have claimed no injuries beyond “bruising.” AP Prince Pierre Casiraghi Read more: www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/jawing_over_brawl_imq193VS4SPE7WstR8fCqI#ixzz1vmlcSZCE
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Post by paca on May 24, 2012 6:51:35 GMT -5
LOL a possible fractured jar? aren't there doctors to tell you if your jar is fractured or not? Wouldn't they have to provide evidence that it was indeed fractured? Wouldn't they have to produce medical records for what has actually been done or can they hide behind the doctors secret? To me it looks like there were only a few egos bruised on the way. from the way the article is written, I'd say the author thinks they are both ridiculous. And they probably are.
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Post by hibou on May 24, 2012 12:34:52 GMT -5
LOL a possible fractured jar? aren't there doctors to tell you if your jar is fractured or not? Wouldn't they have to provide evidence that it was indeed fractured? Wouldn't they have to produce medical records for what has actually been done or can they hide behind the doctors secret? To me it looks like there were only a few egos bruised on the way. from the way the article is written, I'd say the author thinks they are both ridiculous. And they probably are. Yup! Also Joseph Tacopini or what ever his last name is, is known for taking these types of cases. It's all pretty stupid and Hoch just wants money because he's broke and needs it. JMO.
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Post by vamilkshake on May 25, 2012 9:00:20 GMT -5
NY Post - makes fun of "Prince" Pierre again today. Fun Reading. See below.
Monaco's Prince Casiraghi claims bar brawl forced him to go on disability for a month Monaco's baby-faced Prince Pierre Casiraghi has given prosecutors a one-page doctor's report from his royal physicians claiming that a February bar brawl left his royal chin so grievously scratched, he needed to go on disability for a month. "So this poor kid who doesn't work couldn't work for 30 days," snarked the defense lawyer for accused princely jaw-puncher Adam Hock, who was back in Manhattan Criminal Court today on misdemeanor assault charges from the notorious Battle Royale at Double Seven in the Meatpacking District.
"What I think this actually means is that he can't go to a club for 30 days," quipped the lawyer, Joseph Tacopina, speaking to reporters outside court. Hock, the former owner of the Hawaiian Tropic Zone in Times Square, is accused of clocking Casiraghi and three others in the prince's club-hopping court during a fracas that sent at least one magnum of Grey Goose flying and a gaggle of fashion models scattering. When treating Casiraghi just after the brawl, doctors at New York Presbyterian Hospital described the prince as suffering a "superficial" skin laceration, Tacopina said. Seven days later, Casiraghi, the 24-year-old grandson of Grace Kelly, got a second opinion. "He had his royal doctors check out his royal face," said Tacopina. Doctors in Monaco diagnosed him with "face trauma," the lawyer said. It remains unclear whether Casiraghi's jaw was fractured by Hock's caught-on-video punch, as cops said at the time, or "possibly fractured," as Casiraghi puzzlingly maintained in a sworn affidavit a month after the fracas. Casiraghi's lawyer, Edward Kratt, said he could shed no light on the "fractured" versus "possibly fractured" mystery, but insisted after today's court appearance that the prince and his physicians are exaggerating nothing. "I know what the real deal is," Kratt told The Post. "The injury was serious." Meanwhile, Hock is continuing to uncover evidence to back his defense that he was the victim of what his lawyer has called four-against-one scuffle with "international bar brawlers." Hock is accused of clobbering not only Casiraghi, but young and moneyed princely posse-members Diego Marroquin, Vladimir Restoin Roitfeld, and Greek shipping heir Stavros Niarchos, who is the ex of Paris Hilton. "We have evidence of these guys [acting out] in Brazil, Belize, and Paris," Tacopina said. "What happened that night happens all the time. They think mom and dad will dig them out of whatever trouble they get in. "If they crash the Bentley, mom and dad will buy them another Bentley," the lawyer said in an apparent reference to some caught-on-Youtube antics from 2007 in which a wobbly Niarchos rams his Bentley into a commercial truck -- while shielding his face with his hood and dodging paparazzi -- outside a Hollywood nightclub. Hock is due back in court for possible pretrial hearings July 30.
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Post by paca on May 25, 2012 9:50:38 GMT -5
LOL thx. I think they ought to have more people making fun of practically all family members. WOnder if it helps giving Caros kids a kick in the butt and start doing sth. If that is the case then Caro should pay the guy for rattling her son awake and giving him a reality check. But I bet she will spoil this by being protective of her son. I would put severe doubts on MC doctors. They will write anything he wants them to write. ANd scuse me, but it took him a week to get a second opinion? When you consider yourself seriously injured? Hello? If I thought my kid was seriously injured and I wasn't content with the doctors treatment, I 'd get him a second opinion pronto. He was in NY. No second opinion doctors there? COuldn't he efford them? Seriously this is against all common sense and just screams of someone biting off more then he could chew and then needs to go to court to get his hurt ego soothed. Pierre out to be ashamed and hide in a hole for some time. Not that Hock is an angel, but what Pierre is trying here I find way worse. Courts are not there to the amusement and soothing of rich kids getting into trouble. He's lucky he's not my son...
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Post by countess on May 25, 2012 10:33:08 GMT -5
"international bar brawlers." what a label, i used to think the trio was moronaco's only hope DOOMED
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Post by paca on May 25, 2012 12:05:30 GMT -5
that's because you haven't heard the local gossip. They really don't have a good rep back home.
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Post by hibou on May 25, 2012 19:52:58 GMT -5
that's because you haven't heard the local gossip. They really don't have a good rep back home. paca what do they say about them?
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