Post by agentf on Mar 16, 2022 18:43:26 GMT -5
There are some things that are self-evident without media manipulation. Chiefly, if one took a referendum, both Ukrainians & Russians are overwhelmingly against this war. I don't want to discount your charity work or the quality of firsthand info you got about Russo-Ukrainians but nothing warrants what's now taken place. We need to compare to Crimea where apparently a large amount of the population was polled about their desire for self-determination, sponsored somewhat by the Kremlin. I think 2014 needs to be seen as a watershed moment but rather for the first attack on Ukrainian sovereignty and not as an anti-Russian revolt. You won't get the best out of people with a knife to their throats. For 8 years, Ukraine has been on the defensive with various types of incursions into its society, which admittedly may have radicalized some but not the majority. The question would be: why has there been no pre-existing dialogue about the Russian minorities in Ukraine before the military buildup and invasion?! It seems more like a convenient afterthought, from here the POV of "the West". Why didn't Putin recognize these breakaway regions under Zelensky's predecessor...? Anyway, attempting to improve the lot of Russo-Ukrainians by destroying the entire country and threatening a nuclear war is beneath even Putin's intelligence. About the other one, the armoire-à-glace? I have to hand it to him for self-control of his facial muscles because he can't possibly not register the irony of some of what he repeats and keep a straight face.
This whole topic is much more complex as shown in our media.
The first capital of Russia was Kiev.
Many ethnic russians live in Ukraine, most of them in the eastern part.
It's a bit like the Sorbs in Germany, a slavic minority which lives close to the polish border.
minorityrights.org/minorities/sorbs/
In the area where they live their language is a second official language.
It is tought at school. The names of the town are written always in German and in their own language. Their rights to live their culture and beware their identity is rooted in the constitution.
And now lets look at Ukraine: there are far more Russians living there as Sorbs in German. But like for the Sorbes it is their home for centuries! After the Maidan revolution russian was no official language anymore. The new people in charge fought everything "russian". At school only ukraine language was tought.
But thats the top of the iceberg.
I was in the city of Dnepropetrovsk which became Dnipro some years ago.
I asked how is live there and a man told me that he is russian, his wife ukrainian and at school the kids had to learn poems full of hate against the Russians. They handed out flyers picturing Russians like they were pictured in Nazi-Germany with text in ukraine:" Papa - kill the Russian!"
I heared it with my own ears! Thats no propaganda. It is a fact.
Like it is a fact that nazi extremists became part of the official ukraine army!
Unbelievable in ANY western country - especially in Germany.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion
The azov troops and others killed thousands!!! of civilians since 2014 in the eastern parts of Ukraine.
I somehow missed the sanctions against the Ukraine government.
And the pictures of the killed children and women and priests in our news!
We did not see the pictures thats why nothing happened. But I can post some links.
The situation of the Donbass conflict should and could have been solved by the Minsk Agreement. But it was the Ukrainian government that did not do their homeworks too! And if you listen carefully to the speeches of Lavrov ... the implementation of the Minsk Agreenent was one of the main goals Russia wanted to see fulfilled.
But the western countries did not force the Ukrainian government to fulfill their part of the agreement. Selensky & Co. felt the backing of the West. And here is our part of the guilt.
We are talking about a government that has NO problem with right wing extremists troops, nazi-soldiers as official part of their army. Which turned a blind eye to the killing of civilians for 8 years! Sorry - that way they are VERY far away from the European family.
Plus: Ukraine is highly corrupt.
They would have to go a loooong way and do much more homeworks then the Minsk agreement to become part of the European Union!
The NATO does not really want them.
So it would have been much more clever and realistic to be honest to Ukraine
from the western side to say: Become a neutral zone. AND IF Russia will attack anyway - we will imply sanctions against Russia!
Like the sanctions the West has announced now.
Protection of minorities (not only the russian!) was one of the points Lawrow demanded before they send troops.
I think this catastrophy could have been prevented if we (the West) would have been more honest and realistic towards Ukraine!
I help refugees, I send humanitarian help and money to Ukraine. I have friends there! (and always told them 'don't rely on the west - they (ab)use you against the Russians but won't step in in case they attack!' Thats what we see now.)
I feel really sorry for the ukraine civilians.
But I already did send help to orphans from Donbass who became evacuated to Russia as well - and will continue too.
This medal (yes donna!) has two sides.
And one of these sides is clearly underrepresented in western media.
PEACE for Ukraine! PEACE for Russia! PEACE for Europe!!
About Ukraine.
This whole topic is much more complex as shown in our media.
The first capital of Russia was Kiev.
Many ethnic russians live in Ukraine, most of them in the eastern part.
It's a bit like the Sorbs in Germany, a slavic minority which lives close to the polish border.
minorityrights.org/minorities/sorbs/
In the area where they live their language is a second official language.
It is tought at school. The names of the town are written always in German and in their own language. Their rights to live their culture and beware their identity is rooted in the constitution.
And now lets look at Ukraine: there are far more Russians living there as Sorbs in German. But like for the Sorbes it is their home for centuries! After the Maidan revolution russian was no official language anymore. The new people in charge fought everything "russian". At school only ukraine language was tought.
But thats the top of the iceberg.
I was in the city of Dnepropetrovsk which became Dnipro some years ago.
I asked how is live there and a man told me that he is russian, his wife ukrainian and at school the kids had to learn poems full of hate against the Russians. They handed out flyers picturing Russians like they were pictured in Nazi-Germany with text in ukraine:" Papa - kill the Russian!"
I heared it with my own ears! Thats no propaganda. It is a fact.
Like it is a fact that nazi extremists became part of the official ukraine army!
Unbelievable in ANY western country - especially in Germany.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion
The azov troops and others killed thousands!!! of civilians since 2014 in the eastern parts of Ukraine.
I somehow missed the sanctions against the Ukraine government.
And the pictures of the killed children and women and priests in our news!
We did not see the pictures thats why nothing happened. But I can post some links.
The situation of the Donbass conflict should and could have been solved by the Minsk Agreement. But it was the Ukrainian government that did not do their homeworks too! And if you listen carefully to the speeches of Lavrov ... the implementation of the Minsk Agreenent was one of the main goals Russia wanted to see fulfilled.
But the western countries did not force the Ukrainian government to fulfill their part of the agreement. Selensky & Co. felt the backing of the West. And here is our part of the guilt.
We are talking about a government that has NO problem with right wing extremists troops, nazi-soldiers as official part of their army. Which turned a blind eye to the killing of civilians for 8 years! Sorry - that way they are VERY far away from the European family.
Plus: Ukraine is highly corrupt.
They would have to go a loooong way and do much more homeworks then the Minsk agreement to become part of the European Union!
The NATO does not really want them.
So it would have been much more clever and realistic to be honest to Ukraine
from the western side to say: Become a neutral zone. AND IF Russia will attack anyway - we will imply sanctions against Russia!
Like the sanctions the West has announced now.
Protection of minorities (not only the russian!) was one of the points Lawrow demanded before they send troops.
I think this catastrophy could have been prevented if we (the West) would have been more honest and realistic towards Ukraine!
I help refugees, I send humanitarian help and money to Ukraine. I have friends there! (and always told them 'don't rely on the west - they (ab)use you against the Russians but won't step in in case they attack!' Thats what we see now.)
I feel really sorry for the ukraine civilians.
But I already did send help to orphans from Donbass who became evacuated to Russia as well - and will continue too.
This medal (yes donna!) has two sides.
And one of these sides is clearly underrepresented in western media.
PEACE for Ukraine! PEACE for Russia! PEACE for Europe!!