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Post by margarita on Dec 6, 2021 14:02:32 GMT -5
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Post by donna on Dec 6, 2021 15:57:11 GMT -5
I agree with Nicole. Then again, I believe that everything that happens to a person, good or bad, is karma. If you are kind and accepting towards others and the world, the world will be kind to you. If you bitch about everything and everyone, the world will bitch you back.
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Post by paca on Dec 6, 2021 16:51:11 GMT -5
I agree with Nicole. Then again, I believe that everything that happens to a person, good or bad, is karma. If you are kind and accepting towards others and the world, the world will be kind to you. If you bitch about everything and everyone, the world will bitch you back. Hm, I disagree as that would mean that people suffering of cancer etc. have done sth wrong and deserve to suffer from those illnesses. Yes, some bad people do have bad things happening to them. But the majority doesn't. I am speaking of personal experience as well as someone livingin Germany. If the karma theory would be true, than all Nazis would have been punished either in court or by life. Fact is that it is not true. The majority, even major players, went unpunished, regardless if living in East or west Germany. And the majority lived a long comfortable life. Only a few of them were caught up with their past again in their 90s. But so far none of them had to actually go to prison. Given the atrocities they comitted, karma did let them get off lightly. Personally, apart from bitching here, I have tried my best to be a decent person, helped a lot of people and tried to not hurt too many people. Well, I can assure you, no one wants to live my life. Abused as a child, maltreated by an ex and then some, please tell me why I deserve that and what have I done? I didn't murder anyone, I didn't steal from anyone, all I did was being born ancd chosing the wrong father for my children. Oh and I tried to help him and to thank me, he set out to destroy me and our children. And he was pretty darn successful. So, please tell me, what have I done to deserve this. Or is it just that life is not fair and some get lucky, while others don't. CW is where she is, because 1. she over estimated her ability to do the job or underestimated the job. Same goes for her husband. 2. she wanted the lifestyle for herself and her family. So did her family.3. she thought as always, that cheating would get her what she wanted. In sport via doping, in life via surgeries and dental work. 4. turns out she didn't get the gold medal in the olympics and people didn#t think she was a great princess because she now has a straight nose, bigger boobs and looks a little less than Camilla when she opens her mouth. Still Kristen Stewart could play both in biopics. No idea why anyone would cast her as Diana. Anyways I could add on to this list for ages. She is their because of the decisions she took and the environment tat egged her on or enabled her. Had Albert demanded a little bit more of her, she wouldn't be there. But then again who was he to demand. He was damaged goods. No woman with self respect, would have maried him the way he was then ( I bet if Gabriella in a few years would be dating someone like him, I doubt that he would approve). and he was getting an old one as well. He was running out of time. So if she would have had a plan B, Albert been more demanding or less tolerant of her moods and tantrums, or her family less willing to take advantage of their new found richess, she wouldn't have been there. So no, it was not karma, but bad decisions of more than one person oh and btw NICOLE, the people of MC do not love or respect you more than CW. They respect you as the mother of Alex, the son of their prince, who got caught up in this innocently. Not as Nicole Coste. They do not love you. They love that you kept yourself quiet for most of the past 10 years. And they love that your son was allowed to have a relationship with his father. Go back to being quiet or you may just find your son and yourself being excluded. The pics of Albert taking his kids to the xmas village was a show of family reuniting and gathering to protect the 2 heirs to the throne. Legimtimate family rallying to his support. Guess who wasn't included. Your son. And Gabriella holding tight on to her cousins hand. There is a reason for those pics. from the village and the dog show. The Casiraghis in form of Pierre and Charlotte to support. Caro of course and cousins. THese children are meant to be seen as having a network and one that many thought wasn't there. That is why we see Caro not Steph, and Charlotte and Pierre, not Camille or louis. Because everyone assumes that Stephs family will be there anyways.
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Post by agentf on Dec 6, 2021 22:25:46 GMT -5
paca Big huge hug, dear friend. When you put it that way, I can feel the unfairness of it all. I never know what we're supposed to do with all this; it's not as if we wake up in the morning beckoning bad treatment or tragedy. I look at the face of the tragic little British boy, and I set my pain aside. Then I try to get ahead of it. I watched this movie, The Shack, this weekend. It's kind of an update on an old favourite, What Dreams may Come and it's that kind of dilemma, which part is God and which part is evil in the end? There's no clear formula. And no easy path out. There's just today, one at a time. I'm no comfort, but I get you. Nicole Coste. I don't see her approach as very different than CC's. It's in your face-ish. A person loved and respected doesn't need to affirm it to others unless she's trying to convince herself. Never mind Albert, what does her son think of the scrappiness ? He might want to move past the paradigm where he's an accessory to his mom being looked over for another woman, or being her proxy to belonging to Monaco. He has a life to live.
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Post by paca on Dec 7, 2021 8:29:22 GMT -5
Thx. Yeah I am sure everyone agrees, that the poor little kid did nothing to deserve what happened to him. He was terribly let down by everyone. Sadly he is not the first and he won't be the last. There are many more children like him out there. And there will be in the future as we are so busy looking away. Looking away and hoping it doesn't happen to us or those close to us. I always find those memorials pathetic, regardless what they are for: school shootings (and then not banning guns), child abuse and killing, but not intervening. Now you have the grandparents of the little boy touring the media. Blaming the system. And where were they? If it would have been my grandchild , I would have kidnapped him. It would have forced police etc. to investigate properly. I would have banked on the charges being dropped due to the immediate danger to the childs welfare. No judge would have sent a grandparent to prison who was trying to save a life. Given the video footage they have of the abuse... I am surprised where that all came from. Anyways that boy was dealt a bad deck from the very start. The biological mother a murderer herself and I suppose that the entire family doesn't look too good if you have a closer look. Then again there is where you expect all kind of abuse. Where they don't look is middle and upperclass. There is just as much abuse there. Except it is better kept secret.
And yeah Alex has to make sure that Nicole does not damage his standing with Albert. He might have to stand up to his mother at some point. Then again we don't know how CW really treated him or how they got on. It is noticeable though, that neither of her step children would wish her well on social media. So I do believe that there is not a strong bond or they might just really not like her. No pics together etc. It doesn't matter whose fault it is. They are all adult now and it takes 2 to tango. They might need some open talk to move forward and make an effort to get to know each other. Opening up about their feelings, may help. Families aren't easy and the dynamics often unpredictable. Everyone needs to take responsiblity for their share. No more, no less. Getting it all out in the open (obviously not in the press, but the privacy of their home), then reconstruct, if possible. At least once it is all out there, everyone is free to take their decision. And change is possible.
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Post by margarita on Dec 7, 2021 8:45:28 GMT -5
Paca - big hugs! It reminds me of my mother. You can't understand why it all happened but still need to go on. For the childrens sake and for not giving anyone the triumph of getting you down... Stay strong!! Just found this: europe-cities.com/2021/12/07/charlene-de-monaco-vulnerable-in-south-africa-why-her-parents-did-not-visit-her/Charlenes parents did not visit her during all her time in S.A. - due to corona daddy Wittstock says. Now we have it black on white. And I don't believe it. There are PCR-tests, they might have spend some days in quarantine to repeat a PCR test before visiting her. But the relationship is good daddy Wittstock stated. Can't stop wondering. She could visit Zulu king and do photo ops and her parents did not see her to protect her??? Or themselves? I don't get it. Here basically the same + repeating that according to some close friends she nearly died in S.A. www.google.com/amp/s/bbc724.com/charlene-of-monaco-is-tough-and-lost-a-lot-of-weight-her-father-bbc/%3famp=1o.k. - they regulary talk on the phone but did not notice she was close to death?! Or did not care?
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Post by paca on Dec 7, 2021 9:27:13 GMT -5
thx and yes agree with you. Then again her dad is obese and I believe he has had an operation, so he might have been extra careful. Though that argument only holds, if her parents have been quaranteening the entire time, which I doubt they have and a quick ask around in the neighborhood would probably confirm. Also, they have not visited MC long before Corona. She visited apparently, but not her parents. That I find unusual, given how the brothers are bludging of her. And her dad tried to benefit too, doing some shady deals with boxing and the criminal part of the Madela family.
Also the fact that she swam 20km a day 20 years ago, has nothing to do with how her health is now. Most professional athletes are physical wrecks when they retire. Boris becker has 2 artificial hips and other health issues. We are the same age, but he looks like a guy in his mid to late 70s. So mike Wittstock is talking a lot of rubbish again. For them to not visiting MC in the years leading up to Corona with their financial background... also as grandparents with such small kids and also those of gareth in MC I would have expected them to spend several weeks or even months per year in MC. When I lived there, we would meet once a year for skiing as a family, my kids would spend a large part of their summer with my parents since they were 5 and one of them, sometimes both parents would visit. We also had a weekly phone call scheduled with the kids, of course xmas (if we didn't visit) easter etc. and sometimes in between, like when my parents saw some clothes they wanted to buy for the kids etc. And then there where visits from us. And we handled that on a way smaller budget without private planes at our disposal. And other families handled it similar. I know of one, where the only son moved to Canada and the grandparents built a house with a pool on their road, so that they could spend time in Canada, without intruding too much. I don't think the daughter inlaw would have minded coming from a large french Canadian family, but the grandparents were British, so different attitude. But still, they wanted to be near their grandkids and be able to have them stay over etc. And when you live that far apart, you don't come over for 2 or 3 weeks. And with timezones calls are difficult as well, especially with small kids. So the Wittstocks claims are ridiculous. Besides, I am sure that CW was one of the first to be vaccinated. And so where her parents. Add to that masks and distance, the risks would have been minor. Even in SA
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Post by paca on Dec 7, 2021 13:04:10 GMT -5
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Post by donna on Dec 7, 2021 15:12:57 GMT -5
Can you please post the main things, Paca, since I can't access unless paying.
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Post by donna on Dec 7, 2021 15:28:29 GMT -5
Regarding karma, one has to believe in reincarnation to comprehend it. Those Nazi officers will have to pay in their next lives. Even so, they experienced discomfort in this life, being hated, having to denounce their identity, never being able to return to their homeland. The karma between CW and Albert goes back several lifetimes, but if you don't believe in past lives, it is fine. Everyone can believe what they must. I believe that we choose our circumstances when and where we are born in relevance to the lesson we want to live in this life. Maybe we want to experience rejection, so we choose a parent who will reject us in early life. Maybe we want to work with shame, so we might choose an alcoholic parent to learn about it, or a family with shameful secrets. In each lifetime we want to experience so much, dying old, dying young, being rich or poor and under-privileged, losing a child or having 10 or all of those things. Most relationships, as i see it, are karma relationships, especially those more difficult ones. It means that we knew them in another life and when we see them in this life, we just can't help ourselves, and dive into a toxic relationship, despite the warning signs. We love them so much and believe that love will conquer all. Whenever we find ourselves in bad circumstances, I believe there is a lesson in it and the sooner we learn the lesson, the sooner we get out. Having cancer is not necessarily such a dreadful thing, if it brings us to review life with more gratitude and happiness. Cancer can be healed but not battled, imo. Cancer survivors speak of how their lives changed. Isn't that something precious? My point is, it helps to view things from a perspective of many lives (reincarnation).
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Post by paca on Dec 7, 2021 15:54:52 GMT -5
Can you please post the main things, Paca, since I can't access unless paying. same here. So no I can't.
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Post by paca on Dec 7, 2021 16:40:47 GMT -5
Regarding karma, one has to believe in reincarnation to comprehend it. Those Nazi officers will have to pay in their next lives. Even so, they experienced discomfort in this life, being hated, having to denounce their identity, never being able to return to their homeland. The karma between CW and Albert goes back several lifetimes, but if you don't believe in past lives, it is fine. Everyone can believe what they must. I believe that we choose our circumstances when and where we are born in relevance to the lesson we want to live in this life. Maybe we want to experience rejection, so we choose a parent who will reject us in early life. Maybe we want to work with shame, so we might choose an alcoholic parent to learn about it, or a family with shameful secrets. In each lifetime we want to experience so much, dying old, dying young, being rich or poor and under-privileged, losing a child or having 10 or all of those things. Most relationships, as i see it, are karma relationships, especially those more difficult ones. It means that we knew them in another life and when we see them in this life, we just can't help ourselves, and dive into a toxic relationship, despite the warning signs. We love them so much and believe that love will conquer all. Whenever we find ourselves in bad circumstances, I believe there is a lesson in it and the sooner we learn the lesson, the sooner we get out. Having cancer is not necessarily such a dreadful thing, if it brings us to review life with more gratitude and happiness. Cancer can be healed but not battled, imo. Cancer survivors speak of how their lives changed. Isn't that something precious? My point is, it helps to view things from a perspective of many lives (reincarnation). Well, in that case karma is no different to the churches promises of an afterlife or the belief in those virgins for muslim assasins. I don't believe in after life. IMO it is an invention to keep the less fortunate quiet and the wealthy protected from envy and anger and possible reactions to the unfairness of life. Why do you think we have social security systems. Not so much to keep the poor from starving, but to protect the rich from their anger. To prevent revolutions. The greater the divide the stronger the chances that the unfairly treated will revolt. And no the nazis did not have to fear anything. My grandfather was in the resistance and to his death regarded as a traitor. He had to fight for the crumbs of recompensation, having been tortured in a concentration camp in berlin, whilst his Nazi halfbrother who worked as a correspondent in Vienna for the Völkischer Beobachter, found wellpaid employment as a journalist with the Deutsche welle. And to round things of he was elected into a local parliament which provided him with another hefty income until his death. And he lived a long life. No regrets from him. Ever. Never been punished. He lived happily in his hometown, never had to disguise his identy. The only people that didn't want anything to do with him were members of my family. Not all of them, but those with a moral compass. And there were millions just like him. Some still alive today. Those are facts, not fiction. Only a few well known Nazis immigrated. The large majority stayed put. Sophie Scholl btw was stounch supporter of Hitler throughout her youth. So were most of the militaries who tried to assasinate Hitler. Some of them, to round things of were admirers of the pedophile poet Stefan George. Stauffenberg was the worst of them. So thank god they failed, Germany might have ended up child abuse paradise. (well it is in some ways, but not without the help and protection of Benedict and friends) And boy, that poor little Arthur must have made some really bad choices in his past life to deserve to die the way he did. And no, no one choses to experience the loss of a child or to die of cancer. And btw what do you think those who die of cancer would tell you as a lesson to learn? That cancer kills and if you survive you should count yourselve lucky? How precious is it to die of cancer. And basically you are implying that those who die just took a wrong approach and so deserve to die? For real? And are you guaranteeing that reincarnation? Also to my knowledge you are not necessarily reincarnated as a human. so, there are giant holes in your theory. Fine if it makes you happy. But keep it to yourself, because those who lost a child or a loved one to cancer or experience other hardships in life might find that offensive. Because you do not chose that. You deal with it as best you can and try to go on living . Or you die or kill yourself. But Cancer is not a learning lesson. Nor is losing a child. It is no ones choice. And to be killed is not a childs choice, especially not in such a depraved way. And that child did nothing ever to deserve it or be taught a lesson. He had no choice. He could not decide to not be born or to what parents. To blame karma is taking the easy way out. Pretending that nothing could have been done. But there were plenty of things to be done on numerous occasions. but people chose not to do sth. Those people need to be punished severely. But poor Arthur deserved better and given the shitty life he had, it is amazing that he actually managed such an amazing smile in some pics despite his ordeal. What these people deserve is compassion and empathy, not judgement. Even CW and Albert deserve that to some degree, though I do believe that they are where they are because of their decisions. But not because of karma.
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Post by agentf on Dec 7, 2021 17:12:16 GMT -5
Well I'm somewhere between you two, paca & donna . Maybe because my mom's roots go back to Druidic France outside Chartres, and my dad's intertwined with Iroquois but I can say the afterlife is alive and well. It personally does give me comfort to know we transcend and on the other hand, I believe cancer is a disease of civilization which ultimately is karmic in itself in a collective way. Poor little Arthur was a martyr. If he can hear the crowds and see the latent love, let his pure soul receive it. Nothing was his fault. Unfortunately the human race never pauses, and takes stock like one goes through the takeout window. We should just stop. However we run the world, if we can't withstand inaction for a time then our worlds are created out of frenzy which is never a good state for any kind of decisionmaking. Food for thought. If your tower can't stand on its own, you should scrap it and start better. Time can wait. As for Monaco, maybe they should try smudging to clear out bad spirits or exorcise old ones that no doubt psyche the place adversely. A good cosmic cleansing cannot hurt.
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Post by axelle on Dec 7, 2021 18:51:51 GMT -5
Paca - big hugs! It reminds me of my mother. You can't understand why it all happened but still need to go on. For the childrens sake and for not giving anyone the triumph of getting you down... Stay strong!! Just found this: europe-cities.com/2021/12/07/charlene-de-monaco-vulnerable-in-south-africa-why-her-parents-did-not-visit-her/Charlenes parents did not visit her during all her time in S.A. - due to corona daddy Wittstock says. Now we have it black on white. And I don't believe it. There are PCR-tests, they might have spend some days in quarantine to repeat a PCR test before visiting her. But the relationship is good daddy Wittstock stated. Can't stop wondering. She could visit Zulu king and do photo ops and her parents did not see her to protect her??? Or themselves? I don't get it. Here basically the same + repeating that according to some close friends she nearly died in S.A. www.google.com/amp/s/bbc724.com/charlene-of-monaco-is-tough-and-lost-a-lot-of-weight-her-father-bbc/%3famp=1o.k. - they regulary talk on the phone but did not notice she was close to death?! Or did not care? And back to when I asked this question earlier when she came back - where is her support system - her parents? People can form bubbles you know. I am still baffled.
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Post by paca on Dec 7, 2021 19:27:07 GMT -5
Well, her dad said where they were. Home. Protecting her from them. If only. The only bubble they wanted was the one in the champagne Albert ordered for that wedding. I always thought that they seemed rather uncaring. Also I think that once she secured the gravy train by giving birth to the heirs, they felt save enough to go back to SA. I still think that Mikes remark thank god she is back in MC says everything. they don't want her in SA, they need her to be in MC. All of them. That is why suddenly the Wittstocks are front and center in family photo ops. They are not on her side, they are protecting their lifestyle and their own interests. And she is too daft to see it.
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Post by margarita on Dec 7, 2021 22:55:27 GMT -5
Well, her dad said where they were. Home. Protecting her from them. If only. The only bubble they wanted was the one in the champagne Albert ordered for that wedding. I always thought that they seemed rather uncaring. Also I think that once she secured the gravy train by giving birth to the heirs, they felt save enough to go back to SA. I still think that Mikes remark thank god she is back in MC says everything. they don't want her in SA, they need her to be in MC. All of them. That is why suddenly the Wittstocks are front and center in family photo ops. They are not on her side, they are protecting their lifestyle and their own interests. And she is too daft to see it. Agree 100%.
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Post by donna on Dec 8, 2021 16:11:00 GMT -5
Just one more thing on karma: the afterlife and reincarnation are two different things. Reincarnation means that the soul lives on and is born again and again in a new body every time. The "afterlife" would then be the time in between lives. In my opinion karma doesn't affect the afterlife in general, but I know many religions don't agree with me. Karma can (imo) only be understood in relations with the multiple lives here on earth. If you harm someone in one life you'll meet them in another life to have the chance of forgiveness and love. You'll keep meeting this person until you have forgiven and all is good between you.
Then again, this is just my personal view and we don't have to belief the same.
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Post by donna on Dec 8, 2021 16:22:33 GMT -5
I don't see why her parents would have needed to see her. I think the tale of "she almost died" was vastly exaggerated by her friends who were trying to show her in a more positive light. If somebody can't swallow, there are ways to feed people through a tube. Nobody has to die, especially people like her with money to pay for medical assistance. If she doesn't want to eat, because of stubbornness, anorexia or fear, that would be psychological and should be treated accordingly.
The Wittstock family doesn't come across as a tight knit family or very close. The dad seems domineering and the others kind of codependent, which could explain why CW was so happy to have a much older husband who might dominate their relationship. As a woman gets older and matures, she often realizes that she doesn't want to be codependent, or the weak one in a relationship. As her strength grows, she would prefer an equal. I am hoping that CW gets the strength to realize she doesn't benefit from this relationship. I would much rather see her happy with a man who truly loves her, than keep watch this never-ending-train-wreck.
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Post by agentf on Dec 8, 2021 18:35:59 GMT -5
Actress Shirley MacLaine had a similar definition, if memory serves. She explained it well. Sadly words fail some of us, we just accept it but don't try to etch it in stone. I think we've discussed how my birthday, which was 10 days late, happened on the same day as the birth of my late maternal aunt who died at 9 months, (as well as my paternal grandfather and uncle's). Strangely, my mother referred to and introduced me as her sister in her last years. Sometimes it's amazing what love can do, not just karma. 😉 Just one more thing on karma: the afterlife and reincarnation are two different things. Reincarnation means that the soul lives on and is born again and again in a new body every time. The "afterlife" would then be the time in between lives. In my opinion karma doesn't affect the afterlife in general, but I know many religions don't agree with me. Karma can (imo) only be understood in relations with the multiple lives here on earth. If you harm someone in one life you'll meet them in another life to have the chance of forgiveness and love. You'll keep meeting this person until you have forgiven and all is good between you. Then again, this is just my personal view and we don't have to belief the same.
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Post by margarita on Dec 10, 2021 1:31:22 GMT -5
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