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Post by Elektra on Feb 21, 2012 8:46:29 GMT -5
Paca, I totally agree with you. Raging hormones and too much alkohol on both sides of the age spectrum. None of the involved parties are choir boys.
This incident got some attention in the German Media. When one reads the comments one gets the impression that the Monaco guys were quite a nuissance even in MC.
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Post by vamilkshake on Feb 21, 2012 9:04:46 GMT -5
Guess who the Royal Family hired as a publicist for Pierre? Nadine Johnson, former wife of Richard Johnson (he ran Page Six for years). They are going for heavy duty damage control here.
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Post by paca on Feb 21, 2012 9:16:09 GMT -5
Guess who the Royal Family hired as a publicist for Pierre? Nadine Johnson, former wife of Richard Johnson (he ran Page Six for years). They are going for heavy duty damage control here. sounds like Hock was more to the truth then Pierre.Otherwise why would he need to hire a publicist to do damage control? Serious media talk about big egos... www.spiegel.de/panorama/leute/0,1518,816611,00.html
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Post by paca on Feb 21, 2012 9:26:17 GMT -5
Sorry - having difficulty with my computer - I wanted to comment that Caroline should really be flying in to look after her son. Why have Albert stop on his way to California? Caroline is the mother, and she should check in on him. he is an adult. If she didn't manage to raise him properly then, she is not going to succeed now. Grace failed completely as a mother, except with Caro it seems. And she had her share as well. Pierre is entirely responsible for his own actions as eviron else in that family above 18. The worst thing that they are doing no is to run for help. Let him deal with it like an adult and bare the consequences. Thats the only way to prevent these things from happening in the future. look at Ducruet. With the palace protecting him all the time to protect their image he has remained the low live thug he's always been. And they will have to step in until his grave. Only bearing the consequences of our actions teach us and help us improve. This constant pampering keeps these people immature. Look at Albert. He is the best example of what happens when you do not have to own up to yor actions.
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Post by hibou on Feb 21, 2012 9:48:27 GMT -5
Sorry - having difficulty with my computer - I wanted to comment that Caroline should really be flying in to look after her son. Why have Albert stop on his way to California? Caroline is the mother, and she should check in on him. he is an adult. If she didn't manage to raise him properly then, she is not going to succeed now. Grace failed completely as a mother, except with Caro it seems. And she had her share as well. Pierre is entirely responsible for his own actions as eviron else in that family above 18. The worst thing that they are doing no is to run for help. Let him deal with it like an adult and bare the consequences. Thats the only way to prevent these things from happening in the future. look at Ducruet. With the palace protecting him all the time to protect their image he has remained the low live thug he's always been. And they will have to step in until his grave. Only bearing the consequences of our actions teach us and help us improve. This constant pampering keeps these people immature. Look at Albert. He is the best example of what happens when you do not have to own up to yor actions. Paca I have no doubt that everyone was drunk but I have to say in the US (not that it makes the behavior acceptable) there is a lot of this behavior in young guys just out of college. The smart ones who have to earn a living grow up and don't go to clubs all that often. As for Hock, he's a loser at 47 and creepy for hanging with young girls. There are no winners in this situation. As for Pierre, I agree 100% he needs to take responsibility for his actions. None of the three kids seems to hold a permanent job. Not a good sign. I think this is why Prince Philip demanded Harry and William go into the military. It makes them grow up and have to be responsible. Pierre and Andrea could certainly use it.While Albert went into the military it was just a short term to add to his resume. Harry and William are committed to it. JMO.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2012 12:06:16 GMT -5
AgentF, you have made nice spy work. That who is the most jealous in Monaco... lol you made my day today lol ;D ;D I love the first pic!!!
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Post by agentf on Feb 21, 2012 13:41:32 GMT -5
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Post by hibou on Feb 21, 2012 15:40:46 GMT -5
Sounds like Albert. What's love got to do with it. Let's see if the bride to be cancels the wedding. Hock has a lot of explaining to do.
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Post by emmeline on Feb 21, 2012 18:24:31 GMT -5
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Post by paca on Feb 21, 2012 18:38:14 GMT -5
considering that these people call Pierre a prince I don't consider any of them reliable information. In any case it is for the judges etc to determine what happened. he better invest in a good lawyer. I am a bit surprised how everyone seems to be knowing what kind of person this guy is and is protective of Pierre. I think we need to step back a bit and not consider Pierre innocent of bad behaviour just because he is Caros son. Ernst was her husband and that did not stop him from going around bashing people up in his drunk stupor. After all his mother exposed him to a very bad role model of a man, so considering how he was raised and the arrogance of the well to do who think they own the world, the described behaviour of Pierre would not surprise me at all. After all his mom has tolerated, lived and loved a man with exactly that behaviour for a long time. We do not know how Ernst was at home, but seeing that he was a violent drunk and is an admitted alcoholic I doubt that he was better at home. Most people tend to behave better in public then in private. Ernst is a very average man. So I think what he displayed in public was only a glimpse of how he was in private when drunk. And Caro had him around during the most influential time in her boys life. Most people grow up to step in the footsteps of those who raised them. It takes strong personalities to go against that. look at Whitneys daughter: her parents had drug problems. It is no surprise that a girl raised around drugs would not take after that. only taking her out of that context in time could have prevented that from happening.CHildren of alcoholics are more likely to have difficulties with alcohol,children of smokers are more likely to become smokers themselves and children raised with or around violence and abuse are likely to act the same way. Children learn by example. Which is why I do not believe at all the myth around Rainier and Grace. Their children prove it to be wrong. Being raised in the spotlight does not explain away all their difficulties. A gap between the reality at home and the public image of the family on the other hand do IMO.
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Post by agentf on Feb 21, 2012 19:16:00 GMT -5
The reality still is that a 47 year old thug chose to handle a problem which would have been over by calling the owner to the table, by laying his fist instead on Pierre. It was gratuitous violence. Plain and simple. And because Hock is playing the New Yorkers versus Europeans card, I'll get that much more on board defending Pierre personally by the stupidity of the class argument when the bottom line is Hock aspires to be treated deferentially...like a prince. He should pick his story and not try to make every angle work for him like the slimeball opportunist he looks like. Ernst, that's a different story. And Whitney Houston? Her family is perpetuating the same problem on her daughter by dictating what she should do or who she should see, much like they kept Whitney from just being gay. Her mother needed to back off but it's hard to let go of the gravy train.
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Post by paca on Feb 21, 2012 20:05:34 GMT -5
from what I gather in some reports, the owner was actually at the table. In any case the club staff should have stopped this before it got this far, simply due to security and reputation, if a reason is needed. I have to say though that these past few years it has become more and more the habit in MC venues to start fist fights. Not sure if there is an increase on yourside of the Atlantic too, but in MC it has been rather noticeable. Trust me th e card European against American, rich versus poor is played either way. Apparently there are security tapes, so I guess there might be more independent witnesses out there then friends or interested parties. All testimonies were either friends of the involved or people trying to get their names out there and trying to benefit. Or why do we have a party promoter testifying for Pierre. Bet she is hoping to get him to come to one of her gigs once he is healed. Anyways I find this article rather amusing. Seems the only serious press MC is getting is bad press... www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/monegassen-prinz-in-schlaegerei-verwickelt-wenn-der-dollar-wodka-zur-waffe-wird-1.1289384
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Post by mrplowfan on Feb 21, 2012 21:40:15 GMT -5
Paca, the owner who was at Hock's table isn't defending him. In fact his rep has spoken to the press and said Pierre was not guilty....I'm not giving Pierre a pass but there is footage and he has not only been arrested but charged. In the US a District Attorney does not press or accept charges with no proof.
From People Magazine.
On Monday afternoon, a spokesperson for the venue, Double Seven, weighed in, telling PEOPLE in a statement, "The facts are very clear. There was only one person arrested Friday night at the Double Seven, Mr. Hock, who spent two days in jail as a result from his actions. We have no further comments."
I don't care how much of a "nuisance" anyone is (although it's strange that suddenly he is being accused of it) there is NO EXCUSE for breaking someone's jaw and putting deep cuts into them. Hock had already gone to the public and his attorney is well known for trying cases in the press. He's trying to bully them into dropping the charges. Pierre didn't get a publicist until this guy started making all kinds of accusations. What should he have done? Fired his PR like Charlene and done it himself?
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Post by MadameConcorde on Feb 22, 2012 4:32:39 GMT -5
Hi all, I just happened to find this article in the trendy French daily paper "Liberation". Casiraghi, a hot-blooded blue-blood Casiraghi, un sang bleu au sang chaudLe fils de Caroline de Monaco, Pierre Casiraghi, a dû être hospitalisé à la suite d’une bagarre nocturne qui a éclaté dans une discothèque de Meatpacking, à Manhattan samedi soir. Selon le New York Post, l’homme de 24 ans a été impliqué dans une bagarre avec l’ancien propriétaire de la discothèque, Adam Hock, qui a été arrêté et inculpé dimanche pour agression sur le neveu du prince Albert et trois de ses amis. Le jeune homme, qui souffrait de plaies au visage, est ressorti de l’hôpital dans la soirée de samedi. Son avocat estime que son client n’a pas «du tout provoqué» la bagarre. www.liberation.fr/monde/01012391397-casiraghi-un-sang-bleu-au-sang-chaudI guess there is nothing new here. Was it him who got flashed and arrested driving at an excessive speed on a French highway some weeks ago? Or was it his brother? Not talking about Hannover, Caroline's drunk husband who has beaten up a number of people from the media and more. No wonder I have lost interest for the whole new generation of Monacos. The Principality should be dismissed and Monaco should be returned to France. It is more like Moscow-on-the-Med now anyway.
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Post by paca on Feb 22, 2012 5:33:21 GMT -5
Paca, the owner who was at Hock's table isn't defending him. In fact his rep has spoken to the press and said Pierre was not guilty....I'm not giving Pierre a pass but there is footage and he has not only been arrested but charged. In the US a District Attorney does not press or accept charges with no proof. From People Magazine. On Monday afternoon, a spokesperson for the venue, Double Seven, weighed in, telling PEOPLE in a statement, "The facts are very clear. There was only one person arrested Friday night at the Double Seven, Mr. Hock, who spent two days in jail as a result from his actions. We have no further comments." I don't care how much of a "nuisance" anyone is (although it's strange that suddenly he is being accused of it) there is NO EXCUSE for breaking someone's jaw and putting deep cuts into them. Hock had already gone to the public and his attorney is well known for trying cases in the press. He's trying to bully them into dropping the charges. Pierre didn't get a publicist until this guy started making all kinds of accusations. What should he have done? Fired his PR like Charlene and done it himself? where does the statement say that Pierre is not guilty? They are only saying that only one person was arrested. There is nothing about the circumstances. And it is interesting that the owner has a speaker address the media. He is a witness and thus can't speak either way. Plus his friend is the one arrested and he might have an interest in having Pierre as a guest in the future. In any case it is cheap publicity for his venue, though maybe the fistfight he would have loved omitted. As I said before I think people are too ready to side here. None of us was there. The casiraghis are no boyscouts and I am convinced that no normal person lashes out without reason. Neither to me seems to be without guilt. And I am not ready to side with Pierre just because I like Caro. He has to be seen for himself and without full info I am not ready to pass verdict either way. What is interesting though hat Pierre was with friends who seem to have come out unscathed. Hock has a shoulder injury, Pierre a broken jaw from falling down. Seems his friends were not very helpful. 4 guys against one and only Pierre gets injured? I think someone needs new friends...
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Post by MyAdia on Feb 22, 2012 6:13:18 GMT -5
... As I said before I think people are too ready to side here. None of us was there. The casiraghis are no boyscouts and I am convinced that no normal person lashes out without reason. .. But, isn't that exactly what you are doing - siding against Pierre and berating anyone who sees him as a victim (which by the way the laws of New York city sees him as)? Only ONE person has been arrested in this incident - Adam Hock - and you seem to be forgetting this in all your judgment about Pierre - inclduing a dossier about Ernst August's drunken behavior and why we should reflect this on Pierre and how Pierre must have grown up with violence in his home. Repeat, the New York Police Department did an investigation and ONE PERSON was arrested - Adam Hock. He was arrested and charged with assault. According to the laws of the city of New York City, Pierre Casiraghi is the VICTIM - regardless if anyone else likes it or not. If I was a prominent person and Adam Hock and his attorney were making the type of statements about me as they have been about Pierre, I would have hired a publicist also. Why should hiring a publicist - it this is even true - make Pierre a guilty person? Although someone already mentioned this above, this statement, by a Double Seven's spokesperson is EXTREMELY important to repeat. "The facts are very clear," read a statement from the venue. "There was only one person arrested Friday night at the Double Seven, Mr. Hock, who spent two days in jail as a result of his actions." This event happened at the Double seven and Adam Hock - who is not Double Seven's owner as I thought was actually at the table with the club owner, Jeffrey Jah. So, I am sure the police took his statement as statements from the other witness. Sorry Paca, but you are incorrect about assuming that in the United states the person with the most injuries would automatically be be the victim. The police report is public record. If the media or anyone else really wanted to know what actually happened, they should consult the police report instead of Pierre's wealth and the history of Caroline and her husbands to determine what happened in that nightclub with Pierre. I will admit that I am very bias and suspicious when Charlene's flunkies have volumes devoted on the web bashing Pierre, Caroline and all Caroline's children because of this incident. Some are even claiming to be personal friends of Adam Hock and claiming that everyone in america knows that this man is a legitimate upstanding businessman. Only Charlene's stupid dumbass flunkies would make some ridiculous claims like this - as if Americans knew or care who this man and even Pierre are.
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Post by paca on Feb 22, 2012 7:36:58 GMT -5
I am not berating, I am trying to point out that everyone is jumping straight to the defense of Pierre and passing a verdict against the other guy regardless. To me the discussion looked like he attacked an angel who wouldn't do any wrong if his life depended on it, whereas the other guy and his lawyer got the bad guy card straight away. How did the lawyer end up with a bad character verdict just for being his lawyer? Sorry but to me everyone is too quick with judgement here and IMO it should be left to the court where all parties have the opportunity to plead their case. My reference to Ernst was only to explain that Pierre grew up in an environment that did not handle alcohol and violence well, so there is reason to believe that under the influence of alcohol he might as well find a certain behaviour appropriate. I did not say that Pierre lashed out first because Ernst was violent, or that he lashed out at all. I am only saying that it can not be outruled that Pierre was not as innocent as some wish to think. Yes apparently the guy hit him hard and he apparently fell badly and got badly injured. Still I doubt that any sane person, alcohol or not, lashes out with no reason. To me all parties involved are at fault. Pierre is the one with the biggest injury and the court will determine what will happen to the other guy. But still it remains that it takes at least 2 to fight and both of them took a decision: one to provoke, the other to react to it. Both should have used their brains and considered the consequences. Maybe Pierre will think twice next time before opening his mouth and the other guy might turn around and walk away next time. Both of them took a decision, now they both need to deal with it. If Pierre was my son, he would have gotten a maybe that'll teach you instead of sympathies. I am raising my kids to not insult and provoke people and to walk away from fights. They have been told that they are allowed to defend themselves and use appropriate force in order to get themselves and others out of danger and call the police for help. They already know that any force beyond that is a crime. And sometimes you need to shove people away who are trying to provoke you and just won't give it a rest. But then you can shove them just hard enough to allow you to walk away.
Anyways as you said it is public record and can be consulted if the media cared, but obviously they don't as the other stories make better money then what actually happened. This is not a trial yet, so every statement thus far remains unchallenged. And we know from Strauss Kahn, that people do get arrested before the witnesses are found reliable in NY. That does not mean that DSK was not guilty, but it shows that the state attorney does arrest people without sufficient proof. It happens all the time and in cases more severe than this one. Hock is just lucky that he isn't Hispanic or black. Sorry, but my faith in US justice system is limited. Seeing how quickly the verdict is passed in this forum, I doubt that Hock would ever get a chance in front of a jury, once it is pointed out that Pierre is Grace's grandson, Caroline's son and son of a princess....there is a reason why he get's called prince Pierre in the media...
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Post by hibou on Feb 22, 2012 9:48:51 GMT -5
From what I gather reading as much as I can find on the incident, it would seem the following occured:
A bunch of college age young wealthy boys drinking and clubbing
A 47 yr old apparently engaged man drinking and cavorting with young models
A punch was thrown by the 47 yr old injuring one of the boys (Pierre).
I'm not a lawyer but as MyAdia pointed out, only one person was arrested.
Do the boys have a sense of entitlement (I would guess yes) does that give the 47 yr old the right to injure someone - Nope.
Does Pierre have a past history of behaving badly in clubs? Anybody know? How about Andrea? Yes he was clocked speeding but then isn't that why insurance companies charge higher premiums for guys between certain age groups. Doesn't make it a wise move on Andreas part but his behavior statistically bares out that he has lots of company for his age. Now for Charlotte, any one know of bad behavior by her?
I would not judge the boys by Ernst. At some point one has to stop blaming the parents and start holding the boys accountable, that is why I asked the above questions. How often has this happened? Is there a pattern to the trios behavior? Do we really know what they do with their time? In summation, I hope Pierre learns from this incident and stops clubbing at all hours. Time to grow up. JMO
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Post by countess on Feb 22, 2012 10:43:16 GMT -5
www.colbertnation.com/Douchebag Showdown >Prince Creme Brawlee of Monaco makes the mistake of getting in the face of all-American super-douche Adam Hock and pays the price. (03:56) ROFL it even made the parody show JMO i don't like Hocks plastic surgery face, i think it's a set up or this guy's pathetic attempt for PR. i'll bet he's friends with trashlene in one way of another ;P
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Post by agentf on Feb 22, 2012 13:48:15 GMT -5
I love love love Australians! Jessica Hart who was with Pierre's party is poking fun at Hock on Twitter and basically calls him a 'freaky liar' ;D Hock's slimeball lawyer fired off saying she was opening herself up to charges of defamation and libel. Yeah, like Hock had anything nice to say or the scumbag lawyer for that matter
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