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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 10:23:15 GMT -5
I will start a new thread of the family tree of the Grimaldis. I found a site about it. |
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Post by refia on Apr 13, 2012 11:41:28 GMT -5
It´s really scary how some of Alberts ex-lovers resemble Grace  |
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Post by emmeline on Apr 13, 2012 17:39:06 GMT -5
He really has some issues...
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Post by grimnir on Apr 14, 2012 5:25:03 GMT -5
Talking of the family tree, does anyone know if it is true that Albert, Stéphanie and Caroline all three inherited the count(ess) de Polignac title? I thought that the title only went to the heir and not to all children of the count? Surely, there can only be one count and not 7?
Did I read a nice piece of historical falsification (no surprises there) or is this a new nobility rule?
I'd quote the posts, but well, you know, citing other boards and other people... maybe not.
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Post by paca on Apr 14, 2012 5:47:35 GMT -5
Polignac is the name of their grandfather. Transmission is ruled by the house rules of Polignac. It is purely honorary though. I think it is the Beaulieu title that goes to the heir. I think Caro is carrying that title at present.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2012 6:08:17 GMT -5
Talking of the family tree, does anyone know if it is true that Albert, Stéphanie and Caroline all three inherited the count(ess) de Polignac title? I thought that the title only went to the heir and not to all children of the count? Surely, there can only be one count and not 7? Did I read a nice piece of historical falsification (no surprises there) or is this a new nobility rule? I'd quote the posts, but well, you know, citing other boards and other people... maybe not. No, it is Albert, for he inherited the throne and thru the marriage Charlene got inherited his titles of female form. He represents the younger branch of the house. Meanwhile his fifth cousin Armand-Charles , Duke of Polignac (born October 7, 1946) bringing the elder branch of inheritance. |
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Post by grimnir on Apr 14, 2012 6:30:09 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply, my money was on Albert too.
Other question: how many titles does Albert actually have?
The expo about Grace listed some of her titles and ended by saying and some number or other more. Forgot the exact number, but she had an awful lot of them. I once saw a list of Albert's titles (Wiki?) and he has a lot less. Had Grace more titles than Rainier, were a lot of them non-hereditary or did they swipe three quartes of them under the carpet?
Sorry, inquisitive mood today...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2012 6:32:08 GMT -5
Since the coronation of Albert, 2005, Caroline carries this title Son Altesse royale la princesse de Hanovre, duchesse de Brunswick et de Lunebourg, princesse héréditaire de Monaco in French and His Royal Highness the Princess of Hanover, Duchess of Brunswick and Luneburg, Hereditary Princess of Monaco in English. |
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Post by grimnir on Apr 14, 2012 6:53:39 GMT -5
Since the coronation of Albert, 2005, Caroline carries this title Son Altesse royale la princesse de Hanovre, duchesse de Brunswick et de Lunebourg, princesse héréditaire de Monaco in French and His Royal Highness the Princess of Hanover, Duchess of Brunswick and Luneburg, Hereditary Princess of Monaco in English. Minus the Monegasque one, all those titles come from Ernst. Just like Grace's came from marrying Rainier. This is the list of titles that belong to the prince of Monaco: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_of_MonacoNote the subtle snobism: it is "a French title", but " only a Monegasque title".  I thought they had abolished all the French titles after the revolution. So I think those French ones are as much vanity titles as the German ones are (ask Paca about those!  ) Most, if not all of the MC prince's titles, were French ones and got adopted as Monegasque ones after the French ones were abolished. Or that is what I read. Which might actually make the Monegasque ones outranking the French ones... The de Massey title listed in Wiki is afaik not held by Albert, but by Rainier sister princess Antoinette and after her death last year by her daughter Elizabeth-Ann. Sadly Wiki is somewhat iffy on sensitive and passionate subjects and hot potatoes, as flunkies tend to twist the truth in an effort to make their subjects of admiration or hate look better or worse than they really are. I have read purists argue that women have no place in the line of succesion with regard to noble titles and that the Monegasques titles were lost a long time ago when they were inherited by a princess. If so, then I suppose that that would also apply to at least the British, Danish and Dutch titles. And in the future to the Norwegian, Belgian, Swedish and Spanish titles. Oh dear, no noble title left in Europe... ;D Does Stéphanie have any title at all? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2012 7:10:39 GMT -5
It is said he has over one hundred titles but I will never be clever how it has been calculated. Anyway, the government site would be most official. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2012 7:24:25 GMT -5
Does Stéphanie have any title at all? No, not any additional titel. She only has the princess title. S.A.S. la princesse Stéphanie de Monaco. |
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Post by axelle on Apr 14, 2012 7:32:08 GMT -5
That site will go away on May 1 - also we don't know about all the other kids.....they haven't listed CW on there either...
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Post by refia on Apr 14, 2012 8:18:21 GMT -5
I have read purists argue that women have no place in the line of succesion with regard to noble titles and that the Monegasques titles were lost a long time ago when they were inherited by a princess. If so, then I suppose that that would also apply to at least the British, Danish and Dutch titles. And in the future to the Norwegian, Belgian, Swedish and Spanish titles. Oh dear, no noble title left in Europe... ;D Does Stéphanie have any title at all? Those Gotha cops crack me up. Stéphanie is also a Countess of Polignac, but can´t give it to her children. That´s what I found about the titles: Prince Souverain de Monaco, Duc de Valentinois, Marquis des Baux, Comte de Carladès, Baron du Buis, Seigneur de Saint-Remy, Sire de Matignon, Comte de Torigni, Baron de Saint-Lô, de la Luthumière et de Hambye, Duc d'Estouteville, de Mazarin, et de Mayenne, Prince de Château-Porcien, Comte de Ferrette, de Belfort, de Thann et de Rosemont, Baron d'Altkirch, Seigneur d'Isenheim, Marquis de Chilly, Comte de Longjumeau, Baron de Massy, Marquis de Guiscard. The official titles of the Heir to the Throne are: Prince Héréditaire de Monaco, Marquis des Baux. The other descendants in male lineage of the sovereign bear the titles Prince(sse) de Monaco. All members of the family bear the style Serene Highness. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2012 8:47:00 GMT -5
That site will go away on May 1 - also we don't know about all the other kids.....they haven't listed CW on there either... I am conscious that it will expire in short. I think Eringer Q&A blog is updating quite well about the other kids. |
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Post by MadameConcorde on Jan 8, 2014 10:39:36 GMT -5
There was never such thing as a Prince of Monaco. The title was usurped by François Grimaldi and so were the castle and the land. 8 janvier 1247. Déguisé en moine, le Génois Grimaldi s'empare du château de Monaco. les deux cousins Grimaldi choisissent-ils d'opérer par la ruse. Le 8 janvier 1247, ils se présentent à la porte de la forteresse déguisés en moines franciscains demandant l'asile pour la nuit. Sans méfiance, l'homme de garde entrouvre la porte. L'erreur est fatale, car les deux moines s'empressent de l'occire avant de pénétrer dans la cour du château à la tête d'une bande d'énergumènes armés. En moins de temps que ne se déroule une partie de polo, les Grimaldi deviennent maîtres de la forteresse. Ce haut fait d'armes est illustré sur le blason des Grimaldi par la présence de deux moines armés. www.lepoint.fr/c-est-arrive-aujourd-hui/8-janvier-1247-deguise-en-moine-le-genois-grimaldi-s-empare-du-chateau-de-monaco-08-01-2012-1416490_494.php |
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Post by agentf on Mar 4, 2018 7:00:00 GMT -5
I just discovered a link between the Polignacs and the Rigaud de Vaudreuil, that explains the atomes cochus of yore.  Prince Edmond was the grandson of the duchess of Polignac, Marie-Antoinette's friend who btw according to Austrian archives got a major monetary gift from the French queen. Huge amount for the times. Attachments:
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I thought they had abolished all the French titles after the revolution. So I think those French ones are as much vanity titles as the German ones are (ask Paca about those! 
) 
