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Post by paca on Oct 18, 2012 17:09:19 GMT -5
too bad there is no truth to it...as to civil ceremony, could be. Could have happened during summer while they were in MC. Easy to have it in Caros house, which is just down the road from the city hall and keep it quiet. No one would notice and Caro surely knows who to trust to keep quiet.
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Post by margarita on Nov 9, 2012 4:38:10 GMT -5
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Post by refia on Nov 9, 2012 11:52:25 GMT -5
From all nasty comments about A&T, I think the nastiest one was that Tatiana should do a DNA test, because we don´t know if it´s Andreas baby. Imo they woud have married anyway someday, if they do now marry because of the child, then who cares? I hope they give the child a stable home.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2012 11:55:49 GMT -5
I support to the way of handle things when first married and then pregnancy.
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Post by agentf on Nov 9, 2012 14:20:50 GMT -5
I support to the way of handle things when first married and then pregnancy. I agree. Tatiana's health and stress levels are more important. Besides, they should keep a low profile because people have been assassinated for less, the senior Casiraghi case in point. Some people are warped enough to see this good news as something that can take away their piece of the pie (when the pie isn't theirs to begin with...) I wish them a happy, safe and mutually rewarding pregnancy as a couple.
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Post by agentf on Nov 10, 2012 8:18:15 GMT -5
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Post by hibou on Nov 10, 2012 9:09:19 GMT -5
Sound like fun. Let's start one.
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Post by paca on Nov 10, 2012 9:51:36 GMT -5
I suspect both late fathers will be reflected in the name.... that it's going to be a boy is really rubbing it in...trashy is probably spewing...
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Post by agentf on Nov 10, 2012 13:40:17 GMT -5
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Post by hibou on Nov 10, 2012 13:54:08 GMT -5
and now let's contrast that with Charlene's family.....
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Post by agentf on Nov 10, 2012 15:37:07 GMT -5
Well, there's only whether Tatiana also needs to convert, if her mother is in fact Jewish.
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blue j
Full Member
Charlene: I hit the Jackpot, the sucker prince Albert.
Posts: 231
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Post by blue j on Nov 11, 2012 21:29:08 GMT -5
I'm so happy for those two: first of all, they have been in a long term, respectable relationship. Andrea & Tati's baby news has pissed off Trashlene, for sure. ;D I wish only that Andrea & Tati married first before the pregnancy, oh well I'm conservative; although I have things like that in my family: baby first, wedding next, I would expect royals, or people so close to royalty like Andrea, to handle things old-fashioned way. But anyway, it's great news
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Post by paca on Nov 12, 2012 7:16:42 GMT -5
Well, there's only whether Tatiana also needs to convert, if her mother is in fact Jewish. There is no need for her to convert. A jewish mom doesn't make her automatically Jewish. And even if, it says no where in the MC constitution thatyou have to be Catholic to become a Grimaldi. That is a myth. You can not be catholic if you marry into the BRF, but in no other family you have to convert as none of them are heads of church. I suppose even minor Royals of the BRF can marry outside the ANglican church. Caro did not need to convert to marry Ernst. This conversion thing that the others like to practice has nothing to do with anyones constitution. As long as the child is raised in the the faith of the country. But even that is only necessary where there is a state religion. THE PR conversion is just that: PR. It's trying to borrow of the BRF greatness as they are the only family of importance when it comes to Royalty.
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Post by agentf on Nov 12, 2012 8:42:18 GMT -5
My dear, Judaism is a matrilineal system. Monaco's heirs have to be Catholic. Period. If CC converted from one flavour of Christianity to another, if Andrea ever steps up - his wife has to be Catholic. Caroline didn't have to convert, she's Catholic. I'm afraid the kingdom of David will simply have to be built, not borrowed. Besides, ask the son of a Jewess if he's Christian - seriously.
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Post by hibou on Nov 12, 2012 10:02:49 GMT -5
Well, Wiki (for what it's worth) gives her religion as Roman Catholic.
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Post by paca on Nov 12, 2012 11:39:48 GMT -5
I was talking of Caro converting to Protestantism in order to marry Ernst, not converting to Catholicsm to be an heir to Albert. You are refering to the halachian definition of judaism. there has been quite a discussion about that even in Israel. Nevertheless, the MC constitution does not state that she has to be Catholic in order to marry and her child being considered heir. I think it is more important that they are married. And that may mean that they have to be married before the child is born. In any case they should at least have a civil private ceremony to be on the safe side. The child will have to be raised as a catholic though to be able to take the throne as long as Catholicism is constitutionally state religion. As soon as the child is baptised, there is no problem at all...Not in macho country MC where women basically do not count and only recently acquired the right to transmit their nationality to their children....
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Post by hibou on Nov 12, 2012 16:33:23 GMT -5
I was talking of Caro converting to Protestantism in order to marry Ernst, not converting to Catholicsm to be an heir to Albert. You are refering to the halachian definition of judaism. there has been quite a discussion about that even in Israel. Nevertheless, the MC constitution does not state that she has to be Catholic in order to marry and her child being considered heir. I think it is more important that they are married. And that may mean that they have to be married before the child is born. In any case they should at least have a civil private ceremony to be on the safe side. The child will have to be raised as a catholic though to be able to take the throne as long as Catholicism is constitutionally state religion. As soon as the child is baptised, there is no problem at all...Not in macho country MC where women basically do not count and only recently acquired the right to transmit their nationality to their children.... I still wonder if they had a quiet civil ceremony and are waiting until after the birth for the religious one. I believe (and I could be wrong) that as long as Andrea marries her, the child will be considered a legitimate heir. I think Caroline was being shrewd by announcing the engagement when she did which shows intent on Andrea's part to marry the Mother of his child. Ernst had to ask the Queen's permission. Also if Caroline did not convert to Protestantism Ernst would have had to renounce his position in line to the throne, but since he is so distant a cousin, at this point it really didn't matter anyway. Had he been closer in line to the throne she would have had to convert since the Monarch is considered head of the Church of England.
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Post by refia on Nov 12, 2012 17:17:57 GMT -5
I wonder, too if they didn´t already married in a civil ceremony, I mean they are so low-key and their circle doesn´t babbles (I think).
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Post by axelle on Nov 12, 2012 19:26:27 GMT -5
I like them - they come with their own money and style. Good on Andrea! Tati doesn't have to show anyone who she is - glad she is having a boy too! PA n CW must be a bit miffed over all that.......
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Post by agentf on Nov 12, 2012 21:27:46 GMT -5
I like them too. For the record, I said "whether" her mother is Jewish and secondly, Ernst is not a relevant example because he doesn't rule a country. It's all very simple, in order to produce a Monegasque heir, the parents have to be Catholic. It doesn't make sense to apply exceptions when we've seen the rule applied just a year ago with Albert's wedding. The longer they wait, the more speculation. The more secrecy from their camp, the more confirmation they're trying to take a short cut. Right now only Pierre is dating a Roman Catholic by birth. I personally would find it an affront if, after the Vatican interceded on Caroline's behalf in the past, if she showed so little consideration to the faith of her forefathers/mothers which also enabled her to marry Stefano.
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