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Post by hibou on Oct 8, 2014 13:30:26 GMT -5
I think it crosses a line to speak of miscarriages and still births, you guys. And coming from mothers. We may have a strong dislike but it's ghoulish to salivate over the demise of an innocent child. Perspective is needed here IMO it's never too late for a miscarriage. It's only called differently. I have known women to lose their baby a week before the due date. It's just a matter of terms, but fact is that at the end of a pregnancy was no baby. I agree with the rest though. The palace communication is dilettant, but then it reflects the couple, so there is nothing they could do better. They could have the best PR people on the planet and it would still be provincial and dilettant. Actually, I was discussing the fact that she is does not have much a baby bump if she is having twins which is a concern for the development of the children. I also voiced concern about her traveling at this point in her pregnancy. I don't think either paca or I were wishing her ill health or a stillbirth. We were discussing the concern that her lack of baby bump could be trouble. paca had a difficult pregnancy and as the Mother of twins knows better than those of us who don't have twins what the true health risks are. It has nothing to do with wishing ill on Charlene.
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Post by agentf on Oct 8, 2014 13:45:09 GMT -5
Please. Raising the topic alone is vulturous, considering neither like CC. It's Shadenfreude and uglier than I for one would be willing to go.
As per motherhood, it's probably why the forum has turned from edgy into a proper snooze fest in recent past. Inbox each other, for crying out loud.
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Post by paca on Oct 8, 2014 15:36:13 GMT -5
I'm sorry to disagree here, but when talking about pregnancy, it is silly not to discuss miscarriage or stillbirth. It's a matter of information. Just like getting information about side effects of medication, symptoms of an illness etc. I personally have always discussed all issues with regards to pregnancy openly, including the risks during birth, malformations, down syndrome etc. I don't see any point in keeping mum about it as not talking about it puts women who suffer it or have babies with any of the above are being stigmatised. The more natural it is to discuss it, the less marginalized these women are. Because when the topic can be discussed you have the choice to share your experience if you wish or change peoples opinions on the subject. If it is considered bad taste to discuss it, these women are alone. Why should women only be allowed to discuss it in therapy or in safely defined spaces like help groups etc. to spare the feelings, embarrassment of those who don't know how to relate to it? If you find it a difficult topic, that is your problem. You do not have to join in the discussion and if you don't like it, fine. But don't judge us for discussing it and place yourself above us as the one with higher moral statndards. I don't think it is up to you to tell us to use our inboxes (since you seem to be the only one bothered; if others are then feel free to speak up and we can discuss as a group how we want to handle it), because you don't like the turn of the conversation. That is rather dictatorial. And the put down about us being mother is IMO way more out of place then the discussion. What does motherhood have anything at all to do with the appropriateness of discussing a topic or not. I wasn't aware that as a mother I had signed a contract to NOT discuss certain child related topics. It's bad enough that men seem to feel the need to ostrichize us from being capable of discussing certain subjects. I don't think that women should go after other women in that manner.
Feel free to not read the thread, if it bothers you. Miscarriage is a perfectly natural thing to happen to any woman, regardless of age, race, twins etc. With twins the risk is significantly higher. It is a fact. Not ill wishing or sth to be ashamed about. How we feel about trashy has nothing to do with it. It is your personal perception and interpretation or maybe superstition. But miscarriage and stillbirth are to this day a fact when expecting and modern medicin has not been able to illiminate it and there is no use in pretending it doesn't exist or happen. It happens. Like death happens, which is also a topic people tend to prefer to avoid, but it is a fact of life and ostrichizing doesn't help anyone nor does it make it go away. So it is IMO rather silly not to discuss it in a pregnancy thread and pretend it doesn't happen. It happens all the time.
Especially with twins you have the problem that one might not grow as it should. That was the reason why mine were born premature. Fortunetely the doctor miscalculated, but during my last ultrasound on one of the most sophisticated machines available in Europe and actually the world, he calculated a difference of 800 g, telling me that one was practically killing the other. They didn't want to allow me to go home afterwards. Only after telling them that I had no way of reaching the father as we had just moved and I had nothing packed for the same reason, I was allowed to go home for the night. You have no idea how it feels when a doctor tells you in a language you only have a limited command of that if you do not have your children right there and then that one of them will die. Especially when you are first time pregnant. NO matter how well prepared you have been with all aspects of your pregnancy and birth, no matter how well you listened to your body to do the best for your babies, you are not prepared for that. And then they admit you, take your blood and let you sit there for 8 hours agonizing until they decide on how you will be having your babies...they, not you. You are just an object barely worth speaking to. and especially with their father not being of any help, not understanding the language nor having any knowledge about pregnancy and what it entails. I was lucky to have had a German doctor follow me through the pregnancy and once I received the info about procedures it was for the very first time that I took him up on the offer and called his private number which he had given to me at my first appointment. I can't tell you how grateful I was for that and went into the delivery room slightly less frightened. Immediately afterwards I was seperated from my kids after barely having seen them and not being able to hold them. I can tell you that to this day I remember it as the most horrible experience in my entire life. (before the war of the roses with my ex whilst my father was dying of cancer). WIth a good result for my kids, but I don't wish it on anyone. I was in terrible pain as well and it took me forever to recover from the c section. To this day I can barely look at the pics that were taken in the neo nat in NIce. It was truely traumatic and the 2 weeks I spent in hospital I cried buckets. I'm pretty sure that things would have been easier, if I would have known at the time someone with similar experiences.
People always try to paint a rosy picture of pregnancy and childbirth and that everyone will be smiling and happy. Well it's not for a lot of people like that and I see no use in ignoring reality for some glossed over fairytale version of what it is like. Same goes for raising children. It is nothing like what Hollywood likes us to believe. The reality is that a large number of children are lucky to survive their childhood. And I don't know any parent who hasn't been at some point deep down been wishing not to have had children. Regardless of how they are or how we feel about them most of the time. But they push you to your limits and beyond and there are times when it just gets too much to bear. Luckily these moments are to most brief and fleeting, for others they last...
anyways to summarize, I will continue to discuss whatever I think is relevant and might interest others. To me PMs are when it is personal, not regarding the forum and only concerning me and whoever I PM or who PMs me. This is IMO part of dicussing a pregnancy and entirely on topic. There are plenty of non pregnancy, event related threads, so those who feel offended by the discussion or aren't interested or whatever the feelings, can find plenty of space to read and express themselves IMO. Though if the majority shares your view, maybe we can come to an agreement where and how we discuss it. I still believe it is perfectly fine to discuss, but if need be we can continue in a different thread with a warning to those faint hearted members...
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Post by MadameConcorde on Oct 9, 2014 11:19:13 GMT -5
She is the Princess of Monaco so she will receive the best care in the world. CHPG is a top of the line hospital for us commoner mortals. I had to spend time there after my accident. They are very strict but you can be assured of the best technical equipment and some of the best doctors to be found.
I can only imagine what it will be like for the Princess in title giving birth to the heir and spare. She must be under permanent watch with a 24/24 assigned doctor going on trips with her and following her every move everywhere she goes.
The advantage of having twins is that she will not need a repeat. Once the twins are born she is done with pregnancies. It's lucky in a way considering her age.
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Post by paca on Oct 9, 2014 14:15:31 GMT -5
well, I had my twins in the CHPG and yes the medical equipment was top knotch. But for the rest I wouldn't recommend it. When you seperate a baby from the mother right after birth, in every normal hospital people take care of you to make sure you don't drift into depression. With me they actually wanted to seperate me from mine Twice!!! First minutes after birth and then just as I was reunited with them. I had to fight to be able to stay with my kids. They wanted to discharge me but not the kids. Eventually they caved in after I talked to the social worker in residence, but there was a lot of tears and anxiety. Nothing you want to have to confront right after birth. Eventually they arranged for me to stay in the pediatric ward and even ended up renovating a room for me, but it was all retty nerve wrecking and stressful. Once I was transferred out of the maternity ward, for the first time I felt kind of safe with my kids and looked after. Before that the CHPG was a complete nightmare and I can understand why Brangelina chose Lanval. Also with hindsight, I might have insisted on a different option. transporting my kids to Nice was incredibly costly. Transporting me to Nice would have been cheaper and from practical point of view the better option. But there was money to be made and that was the option they forced on me. There was no proper consulting and discussing options. They decided what was best for the hospital, not what would have been best for me and the kids. They undoubtably have the best equipment in the area and possibly in Europe, but how they are treating people was below average. I'd range that with the NHS which I don't hold very high either. Canadian doctors have thus far been my preferred ones, though German doctors are mostly ok. I was lucky to have had one in MC, who even went to visit my babies in Nice and call me to reassure me. Obviously for trashy it will be different, but if I had to re do it, CHPG would not be on my list of hospitals to chose from.
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Post by taz on Oct 12, 2014 8:48:53 GMT -5
Bunte refers to the US-mag People: www.bunte.de/monaco/charlene-von-monaco-so-erfuhr-ihr-albert-vom-zwillingsglueck-105323.htmlThe plastic surgeon Jon Turk [maybe the one who operated CC?!] a [alleged] good friend of PA's talked to People. He says that CC learned that she was pregnant at a routine examination at her doctor. [They want people to believe that it wasn't IVF. Yeah, sure...] She immediately called PA and "forced" him to leave a meeting to tell him that she was pregnant. Shortly afterwards the doctor saw on the ultrasonic scan that she was pregnant with twins. So she called him again and he had to leave the meeting a second time. Turk says that PA doesn't care about the gender of the babies and is happy either way. [So again trying to make believe - no IVF and no gender control to make sure it will be two boys.] PA is making sure that the house and palace will be baby-safe and is preparing footballs and basketballs to play with the kids. In the end Bunte makes fun of PA by saying that they hope that PA won't be in a meeting when the babies are born. So again they let somebody else talk to the press to get the info out. They are so desperate for positive press they make CC's brothers and father talk, the carpet guy, Franziska von Almsick and now this doctor. They are such media whores! And who believes the BS this doctor is talking about?! Gala also mentions the people article: www.gala.de/royals/allgemein/fuerst-albert-von-monaco-so-erfuhr-er-von-den-zwillingen_1159559.html
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Post by taz on Oct 12, 2014 9:04:48 GMT -5
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Post by paca on Oct 12, 2014 10:48:08 GMT -5
LOL I was just about to post this. So now we have a name for who is responsible for her face and Alberts nip and tuck (heard from the husband of a friend that Albert had things done too). At least pre wedding. Not sure if he is still at it, but usually once they start they never stop.
anyways most of the article is utter rubbish. By the time those kids will be playing ball he needs to pump them up again, so obviously he isn't doing that and besides he'd have someone do it. All those phony made up stories to emphasize how much they are looking forward to the kids when he can't be bothered to go with her to the ultrasound... if it is important, you schedule your meetings around it. Albert schedules everything around ASM socccer matches...
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Post by edoep on Oct 12, 2014 11:45:14 GMT -5
I think it crosses a line to speak of miscarriages and still births, you guys. And coming from mothers. We may have a strong dislike but it's ghoulish to salivate over the demise of an innocent child. Perspective is needed here IMO it's never too late for a miscarriage. It's only called differently. I have known women to lose their baby a week before the due date. It's just a matter of terms, but fact is that at the end of a pregnancy was no baby. I agree with the rest though. The palace communication is dilettant, but then it reflects the couple, so there is nothing they could do better. They could have the best PR people on the planet and it would still be provincial and dilettant. let's put it this way - children cannot choose the family they are being born into. these twins will need all the luck in the world and we should wish for them all the best and a happy life - given their parents, grandparents and ancestors in general (with few exceptions), they will be in dire need of it. should they one fine day turn out to be just as low as most of their ancestors ... snarking allowed.
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Post by emmeline on Oct 12, 2014 13:56:55 GMT -5
He is preparing footballs and basketballs and he doesn't know or care the gender of the babies...yeah riiiiight.
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Post by paca on Oct 12, 2014 19:19:57 GMT -5
LOL he doesn't have to find out, because he already knew it was going to be boys before they went in. That's what they were shopping for and unless a doc would make a mistake it will be boys. Since they can't be named Grace, I guess one of them will be called Patrik...
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Post by emmeline on Oct 13, 2014 0:20:25 GMT -5
Monaco is famous for their pretty princesses... if trashy only gives boys, people would miss some pretty princess to admire. Not that Albert cares, i guess. It's better to have boys. I mean if you are gonna pay for heirs, they better be boys.
It will become all less and less glamourous...oh wait a second, glamour has left Monaco long time ago.
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Post by paca on Oct 13, 2014 0:50:25 GMT -5
well, apart from Caro and Steph, I don't think there was much talk about the princesses. Antoinette and her kids didn't make it much into the press, apart from her son of course. Only Rainiers offspring was ever part of the MC PR. The cousins to this day practically don't happen. Caros kids are an exception. Stephs kids are thus far limited to Pauline. Occasionally Camille, but I really don't think that other than Caros kids and grandkids we will be hearing much about MC offspring in the near future much. Alberts kids will not be seen much other the few times they are shown on the balcony. But until they are older, they won't be seen much.
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Post by paca on Oct 13, 2014 7:56:08 GMT -5
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Post by tops on Oct 13, 2014 9:40:01 GMT -5
gosh i just wish i could be convinced that "something" is really in there. she just don't look pregnant to me.
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Post by axelle on Oct 13, 2014 13:16:22 GMT -5
Sounds like a fabrication to me - all this detail and he isn't with her at the sonogram!! Not buying that.....plus that doc can do all the things we think she has had done.......hmmm..
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Post by hibou on Oct 13, 2014 14:28:08 GMT -5
LOL he doesn't have to find out, because he already knew it was going to be boys before they went in. That's what they were shopping for and unless a doc would make a mistake it will be boys. Since they can't be named Grace, I guess one of them will be called Patrik... I'm betting one is boy and the other is a girl if they are truly designer babies. They will need to find a new way to keep poor Grace alive and naming a little girl after her grandmother will give then renewed PR. This way Albert can stop writing sappy articles about his Mother. It does her no justice, and leaves her never resting in peace. JMO.
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Post by hibou on Oct 13, 2014 14:30:23 GMT -5
Sounds like a fabrication to me - all this detail and he isn't with her at the sonogram!! Not buying that.....plus that doc can do all the things we think she has had done.......hmmm.. I'm waiting for him to get caught in an affair. We know he's never stopped seeing other women. If he does, Charlene will then become a martyr. Oh God let's not hope for that one! JMO.
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Post by hibou on Oct 13, 2014 14:37:46 GMT -5
Bunte refers to the US-mag People: www.bunte.de/monaco/charlene-von-monaco-so-erfuhr-ihr-albert-vom-zwillingsglueck-105323.htmlThe plastic surgeon Jon Turk [maybe the one who operated CC?!] a [alleged] good friend of PA's talked to People. He says that CC learned that she was pregnant at a routine examination at her doctor. [They want people to believe that it wasn't IVF. Yeah, sure...] She immediately called PA and "forced" him to leave a meeting to tell him that she was pregnant. Shortly afterwards the doctor saw on the ultrasonic scan that she was pregnant with twins. So she called him again and he had to leave the meeting a second time. Turk says that PA doesn't care about the gender of the babies and is happy either way. [So again trying to make believe - no IVF and no gender control to make sure it will be two boys.] PA is making sure that the house and palace will be baby-safe and is preparing footballs and basketballs to play with the kids. In the end Bunte makes fun of PA by saying that they hope that PA won't be in a meeting when the babies are born. So again they let somebody else talk to the press to get the info out. They are so desperate for positive press they make CC's brothers and father talk, the carpet guy, Franziska von Almsick and now this doctor. They are such media whores! And who believes the BS this doctor is talking about?! Gala also mentions the people article: www.gala.de/royals/allgemein/fuerst-albert-von-monaco-so-erfuhr-er-von-den-zwillingen_1159559.htmlRoute exam? Just happened to be in the early stages of pregnancy, and they left it to Daddy Wittstock to do the blabbing when everyone in that "meeting" knew what had happened. Do they realize how stupid this sounds? I take that back. Of course they don't.
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Post by paca on Oct 13, 2014 14:40:11 GMT -5
LOL he doesn't have to find out, because he already knew it was going to be boys before they went in. That's what they were shopping for and unless a doc would make a mistake it will be boys. Since they can't be named Grace, I guess one of them will be called Patrik... I'm betting one is boy and the other is a girl if they are truly designer babies. They will need to find a new way to keep poor Grace alive and naming a little girl after her grandmother will give then renewed PR. This way Albert can stop writing sappy articles about his Mother. It does her no justice, and leaves her never resting in peace. JMO. with IVF they don't know which will take, if it takes. So to make sure for an heir they surely have used onle male DNA. They were surely counting on her having to go for round 2 and might have considered that the 2nd time a girl is an option, but first round he wants a male heir to get that out of the way. Now they don't have to go round 2. If they do, I wouldn't be surprised if they cloned Grace. Obviously illegal, but so is chosing your baby for gender. My money is on 2 boys. But we will see...
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